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Old 01-01-2008, 11:42 AM
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me.adam2 indyraven
Coolant flush and refill procedure?

Happy New Year everyone!

Quick question, does anyone have a link to the flush / refill procedure for an 04 F250 w. the 6.0? I want to make sure I follow any air bleeding procedure correctly (and flush everything as good as I can) I've done several google searches, and have seen reference to workshop manual section 303-03, but no details. :-(

Thanks!
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Old 01-01-2008, 01:48 PM
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You can check out the Tech Folder in this forum and it has the whole 6.0 bible in there. Almost everything you would need and then some. Happy New Year!!!!!
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Old 01-01-2008, 04:26 PM
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Thanks for the sugestion, it was one of the first places I looked It had a ton of good information, but nothing on changing the coolant. I'm suprised I can't find any information on it! I know it is not rocket science, but with the cost of the coolant used, I want to get the flush right the first time.
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Old 01-01-2008, 04:54 PM
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On mine, I just drained the radiator and pulled the block plugs. Then, refilled with distilled water, and ran it until it fully warmed up. Drain, repeat. Drain, repeat. Then, went to the local quicklube and had them evacuate/replace the almost clear distilled water with 50/50 mix of Delo ELC. I would suggest adding the coolant filter prior to the flush, then put a clean filter on after you're done. If your system is pretty dirty, RMI-25 is great at cleaning them up and the filter will catch the junk; just put it in a couple weeks before your flush.

Mark
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Old 01-01-2008, 07:16 PM
Michaeltharris Michaeltharris is offline
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Is that delo coolant safe to use in these trucks. I work on Generators every day and that is the same stuff we use in the Industrial radiators. It come in a blue jug and is premixed already which is great. If that is good to use in these trucks I might have to bring a few jugs home with me one evening.
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Old 01-01-2008, 09:34 PM
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Take a look here, Its the same procedure I used and it worked great. You may consider doing it this way.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/62...tem-flush.html
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Old 01-01-2008, 10:44 PM
4x4Mark 4x4Mark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaeltharris
Is that delo coolant safe to use in these trucks. I work on Generators every day and that is the same stuff we use in the Industrial radiators. It come in a blue jug and is premixed already which is great. If that is good to use in these trucks I might have to bring a few jugs home with me one evening.
It believe that it is safe - I understand this, or the Shell version, is what comes in the International version of the engine. Also, since it is silicate free, you won't get the drop out and clogging.

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Old 01-03-2008, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4Mark
On mine, I just drained the radiator and pulled the block plugs. Then, refilled with distilled water, and ran it until it fully warmed up. Drain, repeat. Drain, repeat. Then, went to the local quicklube and had them evacuate/replace the almost clear distilled water with 50/50 mix of Delo ELC. I would suggest adding the coolant filter prior to the flush, then put a clean filter on after you're done. If your system is pretty dirty, RMI-25 is great at cleaning them up and the filter will catch the junk; just put it in a couple weeks before your flush.

It believe that it is safe - I understand this, or the Shell version, is what comes in the International version of the engine. Also, since it is silicate free, you won't get the drop out and clogging.Mark
Not wanting to rain on your parade, but the "Delo ELC" coolant does not meet the FMC specifications (WSS-M97B51-A1) for use in the 6.0. Starting with the 2003 MY trucks, FMC switched from "IAT" base coolant to "HOAT" based coolant.
The "Delo ELC" coolant is an "OAT" based coolant (Dex Cool) and is not compatible in the Ford system and does not provide the proper protection for aluminum components.
www.deloperformance.com/pds/elc_products.PDF

There are 3 basic types of engine antifreeze:
IAT (Inorganic Acid Technology) - This is the original old style antifreeze, FMC used this up through 2002 MY trucks, 2003 MY cars, usually Green in color. Service life 36k miles.

OAT (Organic Acid Technology) - Silicate free, GM started using this in 1996 called "Dex Cool" usually orange/red color. Meets Cat EC-1 requirements. This is used by Audi, Jaguar, Porsche, Volkswagen, Land Rover & most Asian vehicles. Service life up to 150k miles.

HOAT (Hybrid Organic Acid Technology) - This is the newest antifreeze formula. It contains small amounts of Silicates to prolong aluminum component life and reduce cavitation wear of aluminum components. Ford started using this in 2003 MY trucks, 2004 MY cars (Ford "Gold" Coolant, WSS-M97B51-A1). This Coolant meets 'European G-05" specifiecations and is used by Ford, Chrysler, Mercedes, BMW & Volvo. Service life up to 150k miles.

Currently the only compatible coolants for the Ford 6.0 is either Ford "Gold" or Zerex G-05.
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?product=10
http://www.valvoline.com/zerex/zerex...oaid=9ACBA047D
http://www.valvoline.com/zerex/pdf/Z...d=1B5D1AEA1AFC

Note: There is no such thing as "universal" antifreeze and color was never standardized, so do not use color alone to identify the antifreeze chemistry.
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Old 01-03-2008, 03:15 PM
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Not raining on my parade, and I made my decision with all of that information available to me. I don't believe Ford necessarily selected the best coolant for this engine, just one that meet the requirements and was readily available. International felt OAT was the right choice for the engine, although I understand Ford has made their own changes to periphery systems:

http://www.internationaldelivers.com...t365detail.asp

I just advise others to be aware of their options, decide carefully, and stand behind their decision. Regardless of my choice, I hope others are confident that they can replace their coolant when they need to. I would advise that you don't wait until the 100k mark per Fords recommended interval.

Just because Delo ELC is an OAT coolant, I would not group it with Dex-cool generically.

Mark
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Old 01-03-2008, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4Mark
Just because Delo ELC is an OAT coolant, I would not group it with Dex-cool generically.Mark
That is interesting, why is that?

There are 3 basic antifreeze types, IAT, OAT & HOAT. They are not interchangeable nor compatible with one another. HOAT was chosen because it has small amounts of silicates which better protect the aluminum components in the cooling system. There have been problems with OAT based coolants not properly protecting aluminum components. In addition FMC did testing with OAT in the past and ran into problems with it. There have been numerous problems with aluminum and seal degredation from OAT coolant in vehicles not properly designed to run it. GM has had numerous problems with OAT coolant in several of its vehicles since introduction in 1996.

It is your truck and your choice but why not use HOAT coolant since it is readily available at the local auto parts, and as increased anticorrosive properties when compared to OAT coolant.
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Old 01-03-2008, 05:39 PM
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I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I will acknowledge that the Delo ELC does not meet the Ford spec as it does not contain the required silicates levels, but if you review its performance against the ASTM corrosion test requirements, it far exceeds the Ford requirements (10 ppm). I believe Ford specified the silicates in its spec as a means to meet the requirements; Delo has found a way to meet them without silicates. I believe two approaches to a common intent. Some of my reasons for taking the approach I took:

- The Delo ELC is good for up to 8 years, 800k miles. Minimizing my need to supplement or consume more coolant. I'm not against good maintanence, I do it religiously.
- The Delo ELC does not contain any silicates that can drop out of suspension, and if exposed to minerals (from top off or system leaching) contribute to our problems of coolant system resriction. I've witnessed trucks of the same model year as mine, with factory fill, that I can spoon "gold mud" out of the coolant reservoir
- The OE HOAT requires silicates as part of its approach to prevent corrosion. If I do experience fallout, on top of the mess within the system, I've also reduced my protection
- After the initial 100k factory fill my warranty is gone anyway, so Ford's warranty is moot.

I also think that if you look closely at the current OAT technology, you'll find that they've come along ways since the first releases of the 90's. The original Dex Cool formulation was bad on gaskets and plastics, and the newer formulations have altered their approach.

I respect your contributions on this board, so please don't take this as a personal item. I just feel that I have researched the topic and made decisions that I can live with. I also know that in all products, manufactures make decision that are trade-offs between economics and optimal engineering. If Ford was focused solely on cooling system performance, they would have put coolant filters on these trucks. But, instead they put a system in place that would get the consumer through the warrantly period and the average ownership of a light duty truck.

Mark
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4Mark
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I will acknowledge that the Delo ELC does not meet the Ford spec as it does not contain the required silicates levels, but if you review its performance against the ASTM corrosion test requirements, it far exceeds the requirements (10 ppm). I believe Ford specified the silicates in its spec as a means to meet the requirements; Delo has found a way to meet them without silicates. I believe two approaches to a common intent. Some of my reasons for taking the approach I took:

- The Delo ELC is good for up to 8 years, 800k miles. Minimizing my need to supplement or consume more coolant. I'm not against good maintanence, I do it religiously.
- The Delo ELC does not contain any silicates that can drop out of suspension, and if exposed to minerals (from top off or system leaching) contribute to our problems of coolant system resriction. I've witnessed trucks of the same model year as mine, with factory fill, that I can spoon "gold mud" out of the coolant reservoir
- The OE HOAT requires silicates as part of its approach to prevent corrosion. If I do experience fallout, on top of the mess within the system, I've also reduced my protection
- After the initial 100k factory fill my warranty is gone anyway, so Ford's warranty is moot.

I also think that if you look closely at the current OAT technology, you'll find that they've come along ways since the first releases of the 90's.

I respect your contributions on this board, so please don't take this as a personal item. I just feel that I have researched the topic and made decisions that I can live with. I also know that in all products, manufactures make decision that are trade-offs between economics and optimal engineering. If Ford was focused solely on cooling system performance, they would have put coolant filters on these trucks. But, instead they put a system in place that would get the consumer through the warrantly period and the average ownership of a light duty truck.Mark
OAT technology was co-developed by GM & Texaco to produce the Dex Cool. Chevron purchased Texco and now markets and OAT product under the Delo name. OAT technology was developed to try and find an antifreeze that could be used for extended drain intervals.

HOAT technology was developed after problems with OAT technology (Note: there is also a NOAT (Nitrate) techology that is similar to OAT, that was developed by Texaco at Caterpillars insistance to reduce cavitation problems in diesel engines, but is currently not used by any automotive manufacture). In addition, Cummins totally backed away from the use of OAT coolant after experiencing silicone engine seal degredation, aluminum radiator failures, and completer plugging of radiators, these problems have also occurred in GM & Caterpillar equipment. In addition GM has experienced numerous cases of cast-iron block corrosion in 4.3L engines running OAT coolant.

Ford, Chrysler and many European vehicles now use HOAT coolant after problems with OAT coolant were found. All coolant types meet the ASTM spec D3306, but this specification is not nearly as stringent as some of the independent manufactures specs.

GM is facing ongoing lawsuits over OAT problems even in 2005-2006 vehicles and has done a few things, 1) Issued directives that OAT coolants never be installed in a vehicle that was not factory filled with OAT, 2) shortened the mileage interval between changes, 3) redesigned the water pump to eleminate cavitation problems experienced in vehicles running OAT coolant, 4) stated to never mix OAT with any other type of coolant.

I do not take your input as a personal attack, and yes i do fully agree that coolant filters should be standard equipment, especially since casting sand is extremely hard on the cooling system. I just want to add information to the OAT antifreeze use, so that all may understand the ramifications of not using the proper product in the cooling system. The NARSA (National Automotive Radiator Service Association), has repeatedly warned of the pitfalls of OAT technology and the problems with mixing coolant types. NARSA current recomendation is to never mix coolant types, if the coolant type needed is not available then distilled water should be used.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:32 PM
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Coolant filters becoming extinct

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4Mark
If Ford was focused solely on cooling system performance, they would have put coolant filters on these trucks. But, instead they put a system in place that would get the consumer through the warrantly period and the average ownership of a light duty truck.
As a side note, International approved the use of ELC with their engines built after about 1999, it became the factory fill around 2001. At that point in time coolant filters began disappearing, even engines with provisions for coolant filters were equipped with block off plates. After 2004, no International engine that I am aware of even has a provision for a coolant filter.
I don't believe International was against the concept of clean coolant, they didn't want people screwing on precharged coolant filters with non compatible additives and since the new coolant did not require constant monitoring and additives to avoid cavitation erosion the risks exceeded the benefits.
Its not just International either, our 2006 Mercedes diesel also has no coolant filter.
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:50 PM
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This is all very interesting, and leads me to ask the following: Is the Evans waterless coolant detrimental to the 6.0? As I understand it, Evans is a propylene glycol coolant and when using it you actually drill a vent hole in the degas cap so that you are running an unpressurized system.
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:52 PM
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Good points and good discussion. I hope we helped with the initial question and didn't overly complicate it. I would say to those replacing their fluids that when in doubt, do go with the factor recommendation - you can't go wrong. Anything other than that and you may find yourself on your own with respect to performance.

Mark
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