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  #1  
Old 12-31-2007, 12:25 PM
Red Star Red Star is offline
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Toyota Tundra woes “shame” automaker

Speaking with Automotive News at the Tokyo Motor Show, ToMoCo’s global manufacturing exec admitted that problems with the automaker’s full-size pickup have caused “shame” within the company.

http://www.allworldauto.com/blogs/20...ame-automaker/
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  #2  
Old 12-31-2007, 12:48 PM
sglaine sglaine is offline
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Very interesting there ...Good reading and thanks for sharing...
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Old 12-31-2007, 01:51 PM
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Interesting, although to me it is probably interesting for a different reason. Toyota, unlike Ford, will admit when they have product issues and will resolve them. As we have seen many many times in the past Ford will try to cover up the issue, deny that it exists, and then try to weasel out of fixing it until they are forced to.

That is one of the many reasons I now own a Tundra and not an F-150. I knew about these issues going in, and I observed Toyota identifying and rectifying problems. Of all the Ford products that have been owned by my family I never observed Ford doing this. They would just replace the same crappy parts over and over and over again.
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Old 12-31-2007, 02:29 PM
osbornk osbornk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobo
Interesting, although to me it is probably interesting for a different reason. Toyota, unlike Ford, will admit when they have product issues and will resolve them. As we have seen many many times in the past Ford will try to cover up the issue, deny that it exists, and then try to weasel out of fixing it until they are forced to.

That is one of the many reasons I now own a Tundra and not an F-150. I knew about these issues going in, and I observed Toyota identifying and rectifying problems. Of all the Ford products that have been owned by my family I never observed Ford doing this. They would just replace the same crappy parts over and over and over again.
I might have agreed with you had not my son-in-law owned one of the mid 90s V6 Toyotas that had the oil sludging problems that they claimed was caused by the owner for years before finally admitting a problem. Once they acknowledged it, they limited the remedies to far fewer than actually had the problem. After my son-in-law had to buy a used engine because Toyota wouldn't help (he has always changed his own oil at 3,000-4,000 miles but they still blamed the sludge on him). His other vehicles have always rant 200-300K without sludge problems.

Do you recall the recall on standard cab trucks when they "forgot" to install the extra straps for child seats. The recall was not to add the straps but to disable the airbag cutoff switch so the owners could not use a baby seat in the truck at all.

Better than Ford?
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Old 12-31-2007, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Interesting, although to me it is probably interesting for a different reason. Toyota, unlike Ford, will admit when they have product issues and will resolve them. As we have seen many many times in the past Ford will try to cover up the issue, deny that it exists, and then try to weasel out of fixing it until they are forced to.
Or worse yet throw a prefectly upstanding vendor in front of the bus to save their own A$$es as with the firestone explorer debacle. 24 PSI is NOT enough air pressure for a 3700lb+ SUV especally one using a dangerous swing arm FRONT suspension.
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Old 12-31-2007, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osbornk
I might have agreed with you had not my son-in-law owned one of the mid 90s V6 Toyotas that had the oil sludging problems that they claimed was caused by the owner for years before finally admitting a problem. Once they acknowledged it, they limited the remedies to far fewer than actually had the problem. After my son-in-law had to buy a used engine because Toyota wouldn't help (he has always changed his own oil at 3,000-4,000 miles but they still blamed the sludge on him). His other vehicles have always rant 200-300K without sludge problems.

Do you recall the recall on standard cab trucks when they "forgot" to install the extra straps for child seats. The recall was not to add the straps but to disable the airbag cutoff switch so the owners could not use a baby seat in the truck at all.

Better than Ford?
The sludge issue was a bad example of corporate arrogance and refusing to admit that something could have been designed badly. Not Toyota's brightest moment I will admit.

However if you want to get into a pissing contest for which company (Ford vs Toyota) has the longest history of crappy products, cover ups, refusals, and poor customer service we can do that.

How about the Ford Pinto remember that one? Where Ford figured it would be cheaper to fight lawsuits from next of kin that it would be to cut some bolts shorter at the factory?

How about the F series trucks that would catch fire for no apparent reason, that Ford was finally forced to admit was a problem.

Ford 5.4L V8's launching spark plugs that Ford still refuses to admit is a design flaw.

You might also remember the previous generation F-150 that would crumple up like a beer can in a head on collision. Safety first!

Now on to personal experience with crappy Ford products.

Case one: 1995 Ford Contour 2.5L DOHC V6. This car died at about 85k on the clock with a siezed engine. Before that the car had four catalytic converters replaced (the fifth one needed to be as well, but we just put up with the light on the dash). One transmission had to be replaced 57k miles I think. All the spark plug wires within 45K miles. The car also had a defective starter that managed to grind off some of it's gear teeth and the corresponding teeth on the flywheel. This was discovered and fixed when the tranny failed.

Case two: 1998 Ford Taurus SHO 3.4L DOHC V8. All coil packs at least twice in 70K miles. One transmission at 52k if I recall correctly. Steering rack/CV joints at 33k going out again when it was traded off. Window regulators. Trunk release. Door mounted tweeters, twice on the driver's side, once on the passenger side.

Case three: 2001 Ford Focus 2.0L DOHC I4. Transmission fialed at 62K. The car had some body damage as well, and was deemed not worth fixing. Scraped.

Family experiences with Toyota products have been the exact opposite thus far.

The Tundra is too new to report on, so far no issues.

My mother drives a 2004 Lexus ES 330, so far it has about 48k on the odo. It has been in the shop only for oil changes and routine service, there have been no problems. None. The car doesn't even have squeaks or rattles. The interior looks new still. This car replaced the SHO. Good ridance to that turd.

My father and my wife both Drive Scion Tc's. My dad has more miles on his (about 25k) and has had no issues from any parts failure. Neither has my wife's car with about 13k on it. Admitedly both cars are still really low mileage right now, but they are tighter and noticebly more well made than the cars they replaced (the 1995 Contour for my dad, and a 1991 Buick for the wife). The cars both have had a voloutary recall perfomed on the side impact air bag sensors. The work took less than an hour.

My brother replaced the crappy Focus with a Toyota Matrix in November. The Matrix is a 2003 with right around 60k on the odo. He has reported that the car is much more well made than the Focus ever was even when new. Beyond that I have nothing else to say about the Matrix as I have never seen the car in person.
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Old 12-31-2007, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krochus
Or worse yet throw a prefectly upstanding vendor in front of the bus to save their own A$$es as with the firestone explorer debacle. 24 PSI is NOT enough air pressure for a 3700lb+ SUV especally one using a dangerous swing arm FRONT suspension.
One thing is that the American public forgives and forgets real soon. It is a proven fact. Just look at how many Explorers are out there now. I have an 07 and love it. I also had a 91 I bought in 90 and loved that truck too.
Firestone has gone to great lengths to overcome the tire issue and the company is still producing their product.
Most people at that time also had no clue about handling a taller than car SUV. Times have changed and so has the traction/handling aids in our Fords.

What dangerous swing arm are you refering too? A arm set up or the tib/ttb set up that was around a decade before it was used in the Explorer?

Too bad, I think the Tundra is produced in the US.
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Old 12-31-2007, 03:50 PM
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[/QUOTE]What dangerous swing arm are you refering too? A arm set up or the tib/ttb set up that was around a decade before it was used in the Explorer? [/QUOTE]




A couple dacades previously the corvair was lambasted for using a swing arm REAR suspension yet somehow it's OK for ford to use one in the FRONT. The ford twin I beam is little more than a trade name for a swing arm suspension as far as I know ford is the only manufacturer to use this style up front

READ MORE HERE

http://www.automotivearticles.com/Suspension_Design_Types_of_Suspensions.shtml
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  #9  
Old 12-31-2007, 03:53 PM
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ya i would be ashamed to drive a tundra too.. unless it was a free company car then i would see what it could take.

Ray
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Old 12-31-2007, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greythorn3
ya i would be ashamed to drive a tundra too.. unless it was a free company car then i would see what it could take.

Ray
While I disagree with your opinion (which is uneducated unless you have driven both an F-150 and a Tundra). I love your avatar.

Bufort T. Justice is the F-ing man!
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  #11  
Old 12-31-2007, 04:03 PM
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What dangerous swing arm are you refering too? A arm set up or the tib/ttb set up that was around a decade before it was used in the Explorer? [/QUOTE]




A couple dacades previously the corvair was lambasted for using a swing arm REAR suspension yet somehow it's OK for ford to use one in the FRONT. The ford twin I beam is little more than a trade name for a swing arm suspension as far as I know ford is the only manufacturer to use this style up front

READ MORE HERE

http://www.automotivearticles.com/Suspension_Design_Types_of_Suspensions.shtml[/QUOTE]
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  #12  
Old 12-31-2007, 04:07 PM
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i have driven neither F150 or tundra, i daily drive a 1975 f350 diesel because it is my CHOICE to drive a vehicle that lasts. yes buford is the man! like everything else thats good, he is in the past.

Ray
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Old 12-31-2007, 04:10 PM
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A couple dacades previously the corvair was lambasted for using a swing arm REAR suspension yet somehow it's OK for ford to use one in the FRONT. The ford twin I beam is little more than a trade name for a swing arm suspension as far as I know ford is the only manufacturer to use this style up front

I am still confused about what set up you are refering to.
The front A arm IFS
The front TTB/TIB IFS
The IRS

Corvettes had a IRS for years
A arm set ups have been around for many years also.
My 02 has an arm coils front suspension - similar to older chevy PUs.
So how come you feel that any configuration of IFS may not be good?

I am not trying to debate, I am not clear about what system you are refering to.

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Old 12-31-2007, 04:11 PM
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Hobo, there is more to vehicles than just reliability. My mom have 1994 Toyota Camry 3.0L V6 w/ almost 150,000 miles. We bought it in 2003 w/ 90,000 miles and so far we had no major issue. But that car is so boring I would never drive something like that even if I knew that it would last me forever. My old 1997 Dodge Intrepid was a crap and ready for a junkyard at only 100,000 miles, but I loved it. It didn't have Toyota's quality, but it was bigger, more powerful, and more fun to drive.

For my next car I think I'll go with Mercury Marauder (I'm keeping Mustang and F-150).
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Old 12-31-2007, 04:12 PM
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ifs is good for cars, not for payload carry trucks.

ray
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Old 12-31-2007, 04:12 PM
 
 
 
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