The Troyer kit employs two 2600 cfm fans (or 2400, don't remember off the top of my head). I drive my truck hard and it has a supercharger which increases load and temps even more. In mid-summer when I hit high 90 and 100 degree temps both fans would come on. Or in long idle periods in heavy traffic (rare for me since I work at home now and when we had an office it was only 5 miles away). Most of the time only one fan came on. With the AC it was really nice having the primary fan come on when the A/C pump kicked in. AC was extremely cold, far colder than it ever was before -- I was able to run it at a lower fan setting.

The conclusion, for me:

1. One 16" 2600 CFM fan is adequate *most* of the time.
2. A second fan is needed sometimes to pull up to 5200 cfm in heavy traffic or extreme heat -- most people drive in heavy stop and go traffic more often than I do.

Will one fan be enough? It depends on your driving habits, its setup, whether it supports 2 speeds, its CFM and where you live.

I made a few enhancements since the system was first installed.

1. LEDs in the cab to let me know when a fan is on.
2. Manual control of both fans from inside the cab. With the supercharger this allows me to drop the intercooler temps prior to a run.
3. Controllers are now in a black, watertight plastic box which looks like it belongs under the hood. Everything about this system looks OEM now, not just the fan mounting. Total cost for the box: $4.50.
4. Added 3rd controller and 5.5 inch fan from a motorcycle to the transmission cooler.
5. Added diodes between the ground wire of each fan and the positive side. When wind blows them it they create current. The diode prevents the fan from bleeding current back into the controller when this happens.

 

I don't tow and experience some stop and go traffic, the one fan does a great job with the high setting without AC and when i do turn on the AC the low speed stays on continuously and really is able to hold the heat down plus I get the added bonus of icy cold AC during idling like you have stated.

I thought Troyer stated 2400 cfm but I did look at and old web page so that figure could have increased for all know. I have inquired about a diode from an earlier thread and so far i haven't eperienced anything wierd with the fan but it is good advice. I like the tranny cooler fan idea......I suppose it could be spliced in with the flexalite t-stat I already have, or no?

Led light? Funny thing is when the high speed comes on, you can really hear it going and feel it working in the cab.

 

Okay, just checked.

The 16" fans used are 2775 CFM each. Yowsers that's a lot!

For the 14 inch fans he states about 4000 CFM total so they are likely 2000 CFM each.

As to the diodes... they are needed for an extremely rare condition, which though small does have a possibility of happening.

Imagine the system is heating up and getting near the point where the fans need to come on. Now imagine you stomp it and get up to speed. Just before they come on the fans are running due to wind and generating current backwards through the controller. Not a big deal until the relay kicks in and ZAP! the relay, fuse or something else blows. Its rare because the vast majority of the time by the time you get up to enough speed for fans to kick in the wind has generated enough cooling to prevent them from coming on.... but it can happen.

Another thing I'm considering is using the diodes to bleed the wind generated current back into the charging system. This way the wind ends up charging your battery instead putting a load on the alternator to do it (most of the time). Small mileage increase (a fraction of an MPG I think) but every bit helps and for the cost of the diodes (about $0.25 each) its basically free mileage.

As to the noise... for the 1997-2003 you're right. Ford added "quiet steel" in 2004. With the windows down, or when there are no other cars around I can here the fans, but most other times I can't.

 

IMO "mumbo jumbo" is right up your ally.

It figures that you'd consider learning & careful planning as having "not done a single thing". All you did is follow online DIY banter & slam a Taurus e-fan in your old shroud & spew superlatives about your conversion, w/o even asking the key questions-let alone find answers you could be "pretty sure" of. Fully agree that you did get there "fast" however.

While studying the issue 1 thing I have learned is that the facts & figures are frequently very sloppy. Note that Lincoln Mark VIII is a 3768 lb passenger car that does have a truely powerful e-fan cooling DOHC 4.6 V8, drawing 33 amps, perhaps 100 amps at start up! However its output in cfm remains a bit of a mystery, as does the output of the belt driven fan in our F150's. IMO, in lieu of absolute numbers, a F150 used to tow heavy loads & do hard work logically requires substantially more cooling capacity than even this bigger car.

As seems to be all to common, I've found various cfm specs for the OEM 'clutch' fan, all between 3780 & 4600 cfm, so far. Frankly I was surprised the figures weren't higher & the big Taurus fan begins to look like it might actually be competitive. However, your spec of "3600 cfm" still seems to prove that the Taurus fan IS actually a downgrade in terms of maximum cooling effect, especially since you adapted it to the stock shroud. The question is only how much of a downgrade. Falling back from 3780 to 3600 cfm is probably no big whoop in Alberta, but IMO losing 1000 cfm could easily be asking for trouble in FL & is certainly not something I'd even consider, let alone praise as "best" or "most efficient"! From what I've learned, my opinion that fans are more effective the closer they are to the core, is born out by the facts. DIY instructions tell how to allow for blade flex, to get the fan as close as possible w/o touching the core. This is done to maximize fan effectiveness-not make space.

Troyer's dual 16" fan kit for F150 moves ~6000 cfm, plainly a very substantial increase over stock & truely an upgrade. Troyer states that it has an integral shrouds "to prevent injury" & make no claim for improving efficiency. These shrouds are itty-bitty compared to the OEM behemoth. They also mention improved access at front of motor & state their design "eliminates the need for the restrictive (OEM) shroud". Their adjustable control blurb warns not to set temp below 180 b/c it will hurt power & mpg. Of course why take them "seriously" they only parrot my "mumbo jumbo".

Summit Perma-Cool offers dual 13" e-fans for F150 that move 5900 cfm & draw only 19 amp. However they note: "not recommended for heavy towing" yikes! If 5900 cfm isn't enough for the kind of work we expect F150 to do how will your "3600 cfm" Taurus fan perform? I know-just more "mumbo jumbo" only you know what's "best" & "most efficient" & these guys, like me, must be guilty of a "lack of" "good work".

Flex-a-Lite offers variable speed, dual 14" e-fans for F150 that move 5500 cfm & use a 40 amp breaker. Their control comes on at 60% then goes to 100% in order to reduce start up load. They flatly state "2 small fans are more efficient than one big fan" but also say 2500 cfm is minimum for a V8. To judge just how widely opinions range, another opinion incredibly claimed just 950 cfm was needed to cool a V8! It is your right to cherry pick the numbers & ignore those you dislike, which in this case means you can boast that your Taurus fan output is far more than 3 times what's required & that's NO "mumbo jumbo"!

I'm no longer sure you even know what driving hard in the heat really is & wish you luck if you ever experience hard driving in genuinely hot situations. I have yet to find any confirmation that the Taurus fan conversion can even match the OEM maximum cooling capacity & everything I've seen indicates the conversion sacrifices some cooling capacity in order to provide the other e-fan benefits.

Sorry, looks like you're the one who was called out & seem to have a "hard time excepting facts". IMO a cooling fan is critical here in FL. The OEM fan is impressive, what I call a "monster". You probably won't even need any fan for the next 5 months, so continue to "think" of it as just "stupid FAN"! Perhaps yours is? Go back to sleep now.

 

Yes that is!

Could be why i have snapped a couple of fuses (30,35 amp) on my efan. Interesting.

That would be nice to know and keep us posted.

 

Starting with your "quote" insterts from my posts again huh? How predictable and boring you have become in such a short time with FTE.

Blowing hot air again, you might need an efan for your mouth when your done talking and boring us with technical info you keep spewing out. If you are so horny for dual fans then put them on.....who here is stopping you?? You spend more time talking than you do walking so put your energies where it might be useful.....like creating your masterpiece efan you have been dreaming about. Do that and get back to us when your done......if you have time in your busy schedule of dreaming.

Sleep? You are definately making me tired so a little catnap might be in order. wake me when you finish your awsome and most spetacular efan. Yawn....

 

Gang... the personal comments/attacks need to stop. Let's agree to disagree, without being disagreeable.

 

WOW!!!! I am getting good at posting these type of questions that get these long winded answers. Thanks for putting an end to it. Now it seems I wont have nothing to look forward to many time a day.
Ken do you have a troyer fan setup or did you DIY?

 

This fellow from north of the border just replies with derogatory remarks and inuendo to deflect his lack of position in the discussion.
The OEM fan is hard to rate for airflow because you have no standard reference to measure for. At what RPM, is the clutch locked, slipping etc.
Granted the OEM blades are wide and full length vs the electric fans that have different shaped and non continious blade widths and shapes and rated at their full speeds..
Just think how much more current it would take to drive a stock fan blade design, with an electric motor?
The electric fan; when not running presents an impediment to airflow. Some vendors know this and use lower flaps trying to help this situation.
Those who want to get more feel for fans and airflow, log onto the DERALE website, look at the fans, capacities and current draws and the installation manurel for their PWM controller and all the various combinations of control and fan installations.
OR listen to the dribble from up north.

 

Do you have pictures you can post or send?

 

Can someone explain this taken from a site that sells flexalite.CFM at 0" Static Pressure-1800


<CFM p 0? at Pressure Static -1800<><CFM 1800 - pressure static 0? at>
I figure that this is not moving, without air being forced in.2 dual 10in fans combined airflow of 3600?
If this is correct then there would be added airflow while moving,increasing airflow to above 3600 cfm.Right?

 

Zero static is no restriction ahead or behind the fan at rated speed. This is a normal way to rate fan/air movment.
On a moving vehichle, airflow pressure ahead of the fan would help the static airflow rating as long as the motor bay can exhaust the air at the same rate behind the fan, otherwise there is a differencial drop accross the fan and the CFM will vary with speed and be affected.
This cannot be speced very easy for any peticular application unless it is a closed duct with known flow conditions.
Trying to spec a fan assembly and control for certain performance conditions is not very practical for the normal user because you can't do anything but select from mfger info and try it out.
It takes lot of numbers to set a design such as the size of the radiator, it's known capacity to reject heat, the coolant flow rate thru the system, the fan operating parameters, how much power in terms of BTUs the motor is putting into the coolant (hp), etc.
So all this arguing over fan sizes, mountings etc is a moot point, so long as large enough hardware is used to cover all the applications the vehichle will encounter.
The factory has to put put out a vehichle that will survive in sub-zero as well as 'almost' any other place on earth it might end up, so puts a very large mechanical fan in lue of an electric unit to fail in the jungle for some electrical reason, where cars don't usually go.
I have investigated super charger inter cooling and see the huge amount of calculations needed to design and size an air to water cooler that can absorb enough heat out of the air and come out the other side with enough temp drop to make a big enough difference in motor power.
Engine cooling is no different but only the sizes and amounts and how the heat is tranfered from one medium to another, are the differences.
Those who are interested in getting a whiff of design; go to the Buick Turbo website and begin reading the intercooler design tech for starters.

 

Amen.

After exhausting what I could find online I made calls to Flex-a-Lite, Troyer & Perma-Cool this afternoon in order to learn more e-fan "mumbo jumbo". The tech support folks were reluctant to put an absolute number on the output of F150 OEM belt driven fans, but were unanimous confirming that its very powerful & a formidable challenge for any single e-fan to compete with. Flex-a-Lite's tech said 5000-6000 cfm & chuckled when I mentioned the online rash of Taurus fan conversions. The concensus seemed to be that 6000 cfm was the target, no doubt the reason these 3 dual fan set ups are rated 5500, 5900 & ~6000 cfm. Significant gains in efficiency are made by splitting the capacity between 2 fans, where 1 fan running is normally enough & the 2nd fan not only provides for the belt driven fan's maximum output-at any rpm/speed, but also covers nearly half the radiator.

Going w/the small capacity 5500 cfm dual fans rec'd for F150, which is also midway between the 5000-6000 estimate for OEM, then comparing it to Taurus at "3600 cfm" we see the midsized car's e-fan is only ~65% of that target capacity! IMO not even close for heavy duty pickup truck use in the heat! Plainly a Taurus fan is NOT an upgrade in terms of maximum cooling capacity & instead substantially reduces it. Its an easy, low cost compromise that sacrifices capacity, but of course does provide the other benefits expected of e-fans.

I've earnestly considered the possibility a single e-fan might be satisfactory in my application, but have come to the conclusion only dual e-fans can match the OEM maximum cooling capacity.

Bored readers will need to decide for themselves if this is just "mumbo jumbo" or valid "technical info" while our "disagreeable" friend takes a "catnap".

 

ClubWagon,
A couple of other things to consider. The OEM fans on the Mark VIII, Taurus, etc. usually cover the whole radiator. They will not cover the F150 radiator. You must also consider how much heat exchange capability that the much larger truck radiator will probably require less CFM of air to remove the same amount of heat.
The reason that the factory shroud is so deep is because the fan blade is most efficient at the outer edge of the shroud, so it is either the deep shroud or a very long fan shaft which will cause problems over time.
You might look into 3.8L Windstar fans too. My 96 has a dual fan set-up. They both run at the same time and are one speed.
Just some more data to add into the equation

 

I already commented that FORD must've had a hard time cooling Taurus & opted for a relatively powerful fan.

My starting point is the existing radiator & fan. My goal is to match or increase cooling capacity, while converting to reap e-fan benefits. IMO it'd "pointless" for me to intentionally reduce my F150's maximum cooling capacity.

The madenterprise conversion leaves everything else the same, while substituting a substantially lower capacity fan & significantly restricting the size of the shroud's opening. Every indication shows that the Taurus e-fan can not move air at maximum OEM rate. If you have sources that challenge the "3600 cfm" that's been used for Taurus or the 3780, 4600 & 5000-6000 figures I've found for OEM I'd enjoy seeing them.

The reason the shroud is so deep is that here's a huge gap between the front of the motor & the radiator. The shroud must adapt the round ~20" fan to the ~15"X32" radiator & fill the gap. Can I presume you've seen what it looks like w/o shroud?

Taurus e-fan proponents "must also consider how much" bigger, heavier, powerful & capable of hauling large loads an F150 is when compared to the midsized grocery getter.

Sounds like a long shot, but are the "3.8L Windstar fans" in the 14" size range? Do you have a figure for the cfm output? If Windstar had a single 14"-16" e-fan it might be worth considering 2 of them. My feeling is that dual fans achieve efficiency by splitting the capacity & a 3.8 minivan capacity is akin to the 3.8 grocery getter AND not the F150 heavy hauler. I'll be taking a hike through a couple of my favorite wrecking yards soon.