Don't know why we Americans are so afraid of diesel. The engine is more efficient and are built to withstand high compression so the last a really long time. The big three got diesel cars off to a bad start in the late 70s and 80s. Today’s diesel is nothing like the old. They are quieter and cleaner and you don’t rumble like you used to either and like it or not more people will have diesels in the U.S. in the next three years than ever before which means that supply for diesel will go up and supply for gasoline will likely go down as the refineries catch up to the demand of the American people. YES you can bet your bottom dollar that it will get better mileage than the gasoline engine IF Ford does it right and puts a reasonable power plant that is not overdone attached to a good tranny with decent low end gearing with or without the DPF you can get good mileage on a new diesel.
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VW, Honda , Ford, Chevy and a bunch of other car makers will have diesel cars, vans, trucks and SUVs out within three years that will blow away any mileage standards we are used to in lace w:st="on"> America lace> and without hybrid batteries that eventually poop out before the engine does. Diesel has been running an average 20% more than gas. So if your truck gets better than 20% better mileage running diesel than gas you are saving in the long run. Now for some one who trades all the time who cares but for the long time owner it is nice. > >
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Look at it this way, at 18mpg a 20% increase is 21.6mpg. So any thing over 21.6 is just gravy isn’t it and yes you will eventually break even with the higher cost of the engine and then some. Just wait until gas hits $5 or $6 a gallon (and it will sooner than we think) those with gas engines will be screaming. We can’t get into real numbers until Ford releases the specs. As long as Ford doesn’t try to put a stupid huge v8 power plant in the Truck then all will be well. > >
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I have a diesel Jetta 2003 and I get real world mileage at about 39 mpg combined driving granted this is a small 3,000lb vehicle with a 4cyl but the newer vehicles are expected to get even better mileage (new injection systems). > >
Last edited by phill1060 : 12-19-2007 at 11:57 PM.
Reason: paste was bad
I Would Love To See A Good Diesel. All I Am Saying Is That Is Doesn't Pan Out. If The Diesel Was Close To The Same Price Or Milage Was Good Enough It Could. I Drive 20-25,000 Miles A Year, And At Todays Prices It Would Take Me 16 Years On Mileage Alone. Yes Gas Prices Will Rise And So To Will Diesel. I Can't Say For The Diesel Option On The Jetta, But At Fuel Prices Here A Diesel Jetta Would Only Save Me $200-300 On A Similar Car With Gas.
Diesel Can Be Good, But The Milage Need To Go Up And The Price To Come Down Be More Cometitive
I think you guys are missing the point with the diesel motor. It may or not cost less to own, but doesn't matter. The sad truth is that Ford needs a stronger motor in the F150 if they want to claim an 10-11k towing capacity. The 5.4L just doesn't cut it for pulling that load. A diesel would, and is better publicity than just another big gas motor. Although I think they should offer a big gasser too for those that don't want to deal with diesel. The F150 today is simply underpowered.
Bill
__________________
Folks call me Bill.
Member So.Cal.Chapter
Please pass the GREEN nozzle.
Look at it this way, at 18mpg a 20% increase is 21.6mpg. So any thing over 21.6 is just gravy isn’t it and yes you will eventually break even with the higher cost of the engine and then some. Just wait until gas hits $5 or $6 a gallon (and it will sooner than we think) those with gas engines will be screaming. We can’t get into real numbers until Ford releases the specs. As long as Ford doesn’t try to put a stupid huge v8 power plant in the Truck then all will be well. > >
Keep in mind Ethanol as a corn based is producing e-85 WITHOUT subsidies as of 06 (according to Brion and Verasun) at roughly 1.15 a gallon (give or take the price of corn, this will be cut by 2/3 if America starts to switch over t switch grass). The rest is just gravy (yes buy ethanol stock if you can).
Diesel and Biodiesel are great options and competition helps the end consumer. I wouldn't write off gas motors just yet. The next 20 years anyway
I think Honda put the world on notice with it's hydrogen car that has the optional hydrogen station sold with it. That's going to be cool.
For towing, big difference. Particularly the RPM at which the torque peaks. I would hope that today they could do better than that. Even the V10 is better than that, so we know they can do it.
Bill
__________________
Folks call me Bill.
Member So.Cal.Chapter
Please pass the GREEN nozzle.
Don't know why we Americans are so afraid of diesel.
Don't know where you got that idea. The diesel F250 outsells the V10 F250.
Americans haven't been "afraid" of them -- they justifiably didn't prefer them given the low cost of gasolen, and smelly/loud diesels. Technology have taken care of both of those problems and fuel prices have changed the situation. In other parts of the world fuel costs have been high enough for people in the past to live with the disadvantages (noise, smell) of diesels.
More likely than not you're going to see gas turbo charged direct injection engines become far more dominant that diesel. They are more efficient than diesels without the particulate pollution problems diesels have. Ford recently had a press briefing where they outlined this as their mid-term energy/CO2 solution.
__________________
-Ken
Look, I'm gonna have to ask you to go ahead, just come back another time. I got a meeting with the Bob's in a couple minutes.
More likely than not you're going to see gas turbo charged direct injection engines become far more dominant that diesel. They are more efficient than diesels without the particulate pollution problems diesels have. Ford recently had a press briefing where they outlined this as their mid-term energy/CO2 solution.
I'm not sure if the current 1.8T Volkwagen engine qualifies as a "gas turbo charged direct injection engine", (but I think it does), it's a sweet power plant. Yeah, not many cubes, but I have one with 144,000 miles and it's still going strong while providing 32mpg city and 40mpg highway with a 5 speed. More than adequate power for commuting. I could get pretty excited if Ford could use similar technology (albeit scaled up a bit) in an F150 that could achieve 24-30 mpg . . .
Dale
__________________ Prior trucks:
1969 Chevrolet C10 350
1976 Ford F250 360
1982 Nissan 2.2 Diesel
1986 Ford Ranger 4x4 2.3
1992 Ford F150 4x4 5.8
1997 Dodge 3500 4x4 5.9 Diesel
Current trucks:
1950 Chevolet 3800 235
1991 Ford Aeromax L-8000 7.8 Diesel
1992 Ford F150 4.9
2006 Ford F150 Lariat 4x4 5.4
I was under the impression the 1.8T is a turbo charged version of the 1.8 and is not direct injection. I can find nothing in the specs which show it to be direct injection.
__________________
-Ken
Look, I'm gonna have to ask you to go ahead, just come back another time. I got a meeting with the Bob's in a couple minutes.
I was under the impression the 1.8T is a turbo charged version of the 1.8 and is not direct injection. I can find nothing in the specs which show it to be direct injection.
Help me out, Ken, your probably right. The 1.8T is fuel injected (Pump and fuel rails, injectors in head). Used to be called true fuel injection vs. throttle bodys in the olden days. What is the definition of direct injection? Maybe I'm in the dark ages . . .
Dale
__________________ Prior trucks:
1969 Chevrolet C10 350
1976 Ford F250 360
1982 Nissan 2.2 Diesel
1986 Ford Ranger 4x4 2.3
1992 Ford F150 4x4 5.8
1997 Dodge 3500 4x4 5.9 Diesel
Current trucks:
1950 Chevolet 3800 235
1991 Ford Aeromax L-8000 7.8 Diesel
1992 Ford F150 4.9
2006 Ford F150 Lariat 4x4 5.4
For towing, big difference. Particularly the RPM at which the torque peaks. I would hope that today they could do better than that. Even the V10 is better than that, so we know they can do it.
Bill
I KNOW THERE IS A DIFFERENCE, BUT I WAS COPAIRING APPLES& ORANGES.
331CI TO 460CI. THE 5.4L IS 130CI SMALLER AND ALMOST AS POWERFUL AS THE 7.5L. THE V10 IS SMALLER AND STILL MORE POWERFUL. TODAYS F150 IS DOING MORE WITH LESS. I OWNED A 93 LIGHTNING AND I THINK THAT MY 4X4 SCREW IS FASTER.
Help me out, Ken, your probably right. The 1.8T is fuel injected (Pump and fuel rails, injectors in head). Used to be called true fuel injection vs. throttle bodys in the olden days. What is the definition of direct injection? Maybe I'm in the dark ages . . .
Dale
With direct injection, the gasoline is injected directly into the cylinder and not the intake port. Much more efficient.
I can't see how someone who owns a regular car could not see the fuel savings in a diesel over gas. The VW Polo in Europe can get 80mpg and the jettas coming out are rated around 55mpg on the hiighway and even my own Jetta will approach 46mpg on the highway. Show me a gasser that can do that without the help of a battery (batteries don't help much anyway on the highway more for city).
I have done this comparison on here before on a different thread about saving fuel in the F250. But lets talk about cars right now. Lets say you have a nice Honda Accord Gas version (V6 or 4cyl that gets about 28mpg on a good day at 3.00 a gallon and you drive 20,000 miles a year. Now you get the new Honda Diesel which will surely get 50mpg or better at 3.60 a gallon. That comes out to $2142 and $1440 with a fuel savings of $702.00 a year minus the price of a diesel fuel filter that averages a lifetime of 20,000 miles.
The F250 does not benefit from this because of weight, really bad wind resistance and the massive engine and powertrain. I am sure a 150 with a not to large diesel engine with all that torque will do just fine (you may not win the local tow speed race, but IMHO that is tupid anyway) and will still tow more than most people need with a light truck.
I guess since I made the switch from gas I am a believer. I pay my fuel bill and fill my car up with diesel not to often. I have made several long trips in my car and absolutely love the mileage I am capable of receiving and only wish to share my experience with others. Most peple can't believe it when I tell them I can go 600 miles on a 12 gal tank if I drive for economy. I don't work for diesel engines of America I am simply someone who can't wait for the first real diesel generation of all vehicles and to watch our diesel prices fall as more oil is diverted to diesel production.
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