WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind. - Purdue University engineers have developed a new aluminum-rich alloy that produces hydrogen by splitting water and is economically competitive with conventional fuels for transportation and power generation.
"We now have an economically viable process for producing hydrogen on-demand for vehicles, electrical generating stations and other applications," said Jerry Woodall, a distinguished professor of electrical and computer engineering at Purdue who invented the process.
The new alloy contains 95 percent aluminum and 5 percent of an alloy that is made of the metals gallium, indium and tin. Because the new alloy contains significantly less of the more expensive gallium than previous forms of the alloy, hydrogen can be produced less expensively, he said.
No doubt there is a way to make a Catalytic converter that will just split the HH from the O easily and with little or no power, and at a fast enough rate to run any engine of any size, but the technology would cripple the oil industry and wreck the economies of so many countries, the whole world would have to have changed big time before that can happen.
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WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind. - Purdue University engineers have developed a new aluminum-rich alloy that produces hydrogen by splitting water and is economically competitive with conventional fuels for transportation and power generation.
"We now have an economically viable process for producing hydrogen on-demand for vehicles, electrical generating stations and other applications," said Jerry Woodall, a distinguished professor of electrical and computer engineering at Purdue who invented the process.
The new alloy contains 95 percent aluminum and 5 percent of an alloy that is made of the metals gallium, indium and tin. Because the new alloy contains significantly less of the more expensive gallium than previous forms of the alloy, hydrogen can be produced less expensively, he said.
No doubt there is a way to make a Catalytic converter that will just split the HH from the O easily and with little or no power, and at a fast enough rate to run any engine of any size, but the technology would cripple the oil industry and wreck the economies of so many countries, the whole world would have to have changed big time before that can happen.
I wouldn't call that a catalytic effect. The aluminum gets consumed in the process, and energy is needed to separate the aluminum from the oxygen to "recharge" the cell so to speak. In effect it uses aluminum as a fuel, something that is quite old (aluminum-air fuel cells).
The idea of decomposing water for "free" is an idea that is catching on, but I have yet to see any credible examples to date.
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I wouldn't call that a catalytic effect. The aluminum gets consumed in the process, and energy is needed to separate the aluminum from the oxygen to "recharge" the cell so to speak. In effect it uses aluminum as a fuel, something that is quite old (aluminum-air fuel cells).
The idea of decomposing water for "free" is an idea that is catching on, but I have yet to see any credible examples to date.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David85 I wouldn't call that a catalytic effect. The aluminum gets consumed in the process, and energy is needed to separate the aluminum from the oxygen to "recharge" the cell so to speak. In effect it uses aluminum as a fuel, something that is quite old (aluminum-air fuel cells).
The idea of decomposing water for "free" is an idea that is catching on, but I have yet to see any credible examples to date.
/Quote:"Perhaps because the universe forbids it?
Calvin"/Unquote.
TANSTAAFL perhaps?
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"Perhaps because the universe forbids it? - Calvin.
It's not free! It costs 240 Watts ie: 12V X 20Amps. The benefit in inproved combustion far outweighs the cost. I think the systems that resonate at the systems natural frequency are using the earth's magnetic field to supplement the input power to achieve better than unity performance.
Universal law of conservation of energy: You can't get more energy out as you put in. energy is not created, or used up, it merely changes form.
(nuclear energy does show that matter and energy are interchangable to some degree, though that does not really violate the law)
I guess I did remember some of my highschool physics after all. I still try to keep an open mind about "free energy", and the laws of physics as they have been observed for hundreds of years now. But I keep a 5lb bag of salt next to me, and I go through a lot of it, if you know what I mean.
Science grows and changes everyday, but its not always perfect, much like the humans that created it. But theres no shortage of scams out there, so I get some salt ready everytime I hear about some perpetual motion machine (usually with "frictionless bearings").
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1986 F150 Ex cab Lariat rollercam 5.0L on LPG AOD trans 3.55 gears 390 000Ks
(nuclear energy does show that matter and energy are interchangable to some degree, though that does not really violate the law)
This is known as mass defect in the nuclear power field. As I recall the law went "Energy is neither created nor destroyed, only changed in form", but it's been almost 30 years since I went to Nuke School......
I'm still reading through the post, but as far as a safety blow off mechanism goes something like a rupture disc would probably be what you would want. If you went with sheet rubber, scoring a pattern into one or both sides would provide a pre-weakened failure matrix to allow rapid pressure release in the event of an explosion.
One thing I've noticed while driving home at night is that when I'm at idle there's a red light that comes on under the dash(I see it on my shoe). I'm not certain what it is, but if it could be tapped as a signal for an arming relay you would only generate gasses while above idle.
As far as variable generation goes, some of the water/methanol controllers use Pulse Width Modulation to control injection rate by varying the signal to the pump motor. Perhaps this could be applied to the generator to achieve variable gas generation?
In respect to where to introduce the gasses into the intake stream, having the hose sitting in front of the inlet to the air box but not piped directly into the intake would allow any gasses generated but not consumed while the engine is running (such as venting remaining gasses after shut down) to vent to atmosphere instead of building up in the intake.
If seperating the gasses is desired, consider using concentric plates(pipes of different diameters) with collectors above cathode and anode.
I like the attention to safety being given in this discussion. I will read the rest of the post tomorrow and may have more ideas to share for your consideration, but it's 2:30 now and I have to get to bed......
This thread is where I first came across parkland's infatuation with hydrogen, as in "I love the smell of burning hydrogen in the morning" kind of thing!
Well at least that's an application of hydrogen that I could analyze, and in post # 23 did...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ernesteugene
...So you made an additional (60/186)(538)=174 HP due to the Hydrogen, and this combined with your stock HP of say 235 HP to give a brief 3 second total of about 409 HP...The bottom line is that it took 8 hours to make 1 bag full of Hydrogen, and that was only enough for a 25 ft thrill ride lasting about 3 seconds...
Quote:
Originally Posted by parkland
Good guestimate ,Ernesteugene.
I'd guess that's very accurate. 3 cubic feet, 3 seconds, around 400 HP...
In this application hydrogen was employed as an energy storage device, kind of like trickle charging a battery overnight, and then using it to power an electric motor to provide a brief burst of auxiliary power.
In this current thread the application is to increase MPG, and parkland states...
Quote:
Originally Posted by parkland
...The whole concept as I understood it, was not to burn the H2 for its chemical energy, but rather the burning process of diesel is somehow benefited by having more H2 in the process...
Well this sounds a lot like the question of how DFA's might increase MPG, even though they contain a negligible amount of BTU's, and I analyzed that here...
...So in summary, it seems to me that DFAs can potentially increase HP and mileage by increasing the area under the pressure-time curve, and possibly by effectively adjusting the injection timing by shifting the peak of the curve to a more favorable crankshaft position. Another way of explaining this is that roughly only 1/3 of the fuel heat energy is converted into HP, with 1/3 absorbed by the coolant, and the remaining 1/3 going out the exhaust. By increasing the pressure-time curve area and shifting its peak, a DFA might slightly increase the amount of heat energy converted into HP, while reducing the waste heat energy by a corresponding amount...
So is hydrogen really just another form of a DFA, and does hydrogen improve MPG by a similar mechanism, and if so are the MPG gains of hydrogen additive to those of DFA's?
Well I decided against my better judgment to click on the link given in post #378, and I found the following quotes... WAVE 3 TV Louisville, KY | Hydro 4000 makers say device can substantially improve fuel mileage "...Here's how the Hydro 4000 is supposed to work:...When gas and air hit the spark plugs, it triggers a mini-explosion, pushing the vehicle forward. But roughly 15 percent of the gas isn't burned in the engine. It's actually pushed out through the exhaust pipe...The Hydro 4000 is supposed to send hydrogen into the engine, creating a cleaner burning environment, allowing the vehicle to burn all of the gas in the tank..."
Then based on dyno tests it went on to claim..."The test showed the truck was averaging roughly 9.4 mpg...After installing the Hydro 4000, crews drove the truck as usual for nearly a month. Havanich said that would give the device time to clean out the engine...When the truck was put back on the dynamometer for the same mpg test, results showed it was averaging 23.2 mpg..."
So they're claiming a X2.47 or a 147% increase in MPG, and the reasons given are that the hydrogen burns fuel that's normally wasted and/or cleans your engine, and that some how allows it to burn this normally wasted fuel.
Now compare these claims and the explanations to justify them, to the type's of analyses and explanations that I give, and decide who you'd rather buy a used PSD from!
The only comment I would add in response to your above post is this... the one link you reviewed should be neither considered nor represented as being accurately representative of all the extensive efforts and research that has been performed in conjunction with the topic of this thread (I am not referring to the discourses in the thread as being 100% representative either). There are some folks who have dedicated much time and energy to this topic, and I linked to a couple of these sites in some of my earlier posts within this thread.
In my mind, the only outstanding issues are the long-lasting impact which sustained combustion with hydrogen injection might have on engine internals - there are many unknowns on this point.
At this point, I don't question the potential validity of how the injection of Brown's gas can enhance power and/or mileage. nor do I question the ability to make a reliable home-made generator that can be built, operated, and maintained safely and economically, though the exact "best" design is still rather open for duscission. Like I said, though, I do question the long-term impact of doing this in terms of its impact on internal engine components due to the loudly screaming absence of adequate documentation of such.
First, was doing a little research on hydrogen converted engines. They seem to be stock + superchrged for running H, so I'm doubting any real problem in using a little bit of browns for a additive.
The more reading I'm doing, the more I'm realizing how the browns gas is doing so much more than extra fuel. It is in fact an extremely good way of cleaning out the engine. On a gas engine, economy is boosted by the gas, but also because the engine's carbon buldups are cleaned out, and the computer advances the timing without knock, etc. On our diesels, I suppose cleaner innards and better combustion help things along too?
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First, was doing a little research on hydrogen converted engines. They seem to be stock + superchrged for running H, so I'm doubting any real problem in using a little bit of browns for a additive.
....
Honestly, that is also my suspicion, but I am conveniently relying on it as a crutch to feel better about not having time to work on it right now anyway.
...Gene:... At this point, I don't question the potential validity of how the injection of Brown's gas can enhance power and/or mileage...
Then you must understand the "how" part, and I'd like you to explain it using words and preferably some equations to enhance my understanding.
Like I said, if the "how" for hydrogen is the same mechanism as the "how" for DFAs, and if the MPG increase from hydrogen isn't additive to the gains reported by users of DFAs, then isn't it a lot cheaper and safer to just use a double dose of a reputable branded DFA and be done with it?
I'm in St Louis this week visiting my old (and I do mean old) engineering buddies that I worked with on F-4's in the 60's, and I'll raise this topic with them over a few beers. I've got a few thoughts on various ways to increase MPG, and when I get time I'll start a new thread on this topic, and of course there'll be plenty of equations so that one can estimate in advance potential improvements in MPG.
... The more reading I'm doing, the more I'm realizing how the browns gas is doing so much more than extra fuel. It is in fact an extremely good way of cleaning out the engine. On a gas engine, economy is boosted by the gas, but also because the engine's carbon buldups are cleaned out, and the computer advances the timing without knock, etc. On our diesels, I suppose cleaner innards and better combustion help things along too?...
Last week Jeremy came down to Lake Ozark for a boat ride, and he brought along a box of parts from his blown PSD including all the pistons and rods. Some parts were broken for sure, but all the parts were clean, in fact they were extremely clean! I think Jeremy said he had about 180K on the engine when the rod broke. If Jeremy's engine is typical of a well cared for higher mileage PSD, and if the "how" for hydrogen is that it cleans the engine, then it looks like supplemental hydrogen won't be doing much for the typical PSD!
Of course Jeremy attributes his clean engine to his use of Schaeffer's oil and DFA. Jeremy claims users of Schaeffer's DFA are seeing a 4 MPG increase, and he gave me enough Schaeffer's DFA to treat about 360 gal with a single dose so I can do a test on my CAT C7. I've got a fancy computer that plugs into the data link port, and among other parameters it records GPH, MPH, and calculates MPG over short, medium, and long averaging times times.
It seems to me that a good quality oil and DFA is the correct approach to keeping the injectors and the combustion chambers in the pistons clean, and the "how" for these cleanliness mechanisms is fairly well understood. On the other hand, I'll try to keep and open mind (but not so open that my brains fall out) and carefully consider any mechanisms that are presented as to how hydrogen can accomplish the same thing. However, my main point is that if an engine is clean to begin with, then how does hydrogen make it cleaner?
Then you must understand the "how" part, and I'd like you to explain it using words and preferably some equations to enhance my understanding....
Gene:
I would love to dig out all the equations I've seen and explanations I've read in order to synthesize them into something more concise, but I honestly don't have the spare time to do that, which is why I posted lniks to other sites which I thought to be valuable and scientifically valid. Regardless, I've taken a few minutes to put together a few references again for your convenience.
Perhaps if I get a chance to retire in the next 20 years, I will be able to dedicate more productive time to it as you have. Until then, I'm still sort of skimming the surface.
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