2007 DURAMAX wiped by my 2002 7.3

[alchymist]

Originally Posted by F250_ This concept has been being used as a "gadget" on non-diesel cars and trucks for some time. It works... simple as that. I seem to be gaining ground on my goals for electronics control of voltage (read as hydrogen production). It seems that what I am needing as part of my scheme is the use of a transistor circuit or two, or three. Now to just figure out how to configure the total circuitry package and see how much it would cost to build the thing and test it. If you can define it I can build it.......you need to decide 1) what you want to control, 2) How many control lines are needed (outputs), and 3) What the inputs are. Each of the above need to be broken down into input or output, voltage, current, and time parameters. Given that, I can build & bench test.

[mprice]

Originally Posted by alchymist

If you can define it I can build it.......you need to decide 1) what you want to control, 2) How many control lines are needed (outputs), and 3) What the inputs are.
Each of the above need to be broken down into input or output, voltage, current, and time parameters. Given that, I can build & bench test.

From the chemistry involved you really need to be measuring amps, instead. You are adding electrons at one side and taking them out of the other. For every 2 electrons you get 2 Hydrogen atoms and 1 Oxygen. Amps is roughly a measure of how many electrons per second are passing down the wire. Volts is roughly how hard you are pushing on the electrons.

Calvin

[F250_]

Originally Posted by mprice

From the chemistry involved you really need to be measuring amps, instead. You are adding electrons at one side and taking them out of the other. For every 2 electrons you get 2 Hydrogen atoms and 1 Oxygen. Amps is roughly a measure of how many electrons per second are passing down the wire. Volts is roughly how hard you are pushing on the electrons.

Calvin

Calvin:

I understand exactly what you're saying, but I would clarify it just a little bit with this. You're correct in that it is the variance of amperage that will control the gas ouput rate. However, in order to control that amperage output, the "input" will probably be something like milliamps or volts that will be the output from an onboard sensor (i.e. boost gauge, tach, throttle position sensor, fuel flow, etc.). The variance in this "input" to the "controller" is what will determine how to control the amp output to the generator.

At least, that's the concept I have running around in my non-electronically based thinking process.

[mprice]

Originally Posted by F250_

Calvin:

I understand exactly what you're saying, but I would clarify it just a little bit with this. You're correct in that it is the variance of amperage that will control the gas ouput rate. However, in order to control that amperage output, the "input" will probably be something like milliamps or volts that will be the output from an onboard sensor (i.e. boost gauge, tach, throttle position sensor, fuel flow, etc.). The variance in this "input" to the "controller" is what will determine how to control the amp output to the generator.

At least, that's the concept I have running around in my non-electronically based thinking process.

I wasn't so much responding to you as to the post before yours; sorry to quote yours instead. If someone just wants a guage to show relative gas production he'll need an ammeter and not a voltmeter.

I assumed you would be sending a PWM signal into a SSR from a uC relative to air flow. The operator controlled value would be a fixed H/Air ratio. You would need to periodically sample the gas generator's resistance and use that to apply the correct voltage to give the required current. If my Chem101 wasn't so rusty I might be able to give a good gas volume/amps ratio.

Summary:
Sample rpm
Sample gas generator resistance
Sample ambient temp
Read desired H ratio

RPM * displacement = intake volume/minute
Intake volume * temp correction * g/ltr for air = intake mass
intake mass * H ratio setting = H mass needed
H mass needed * amps correction = amps needed
amps needed * generator resistance = volts needed

Output/Adjust PWM signal to SSR to get the right Voltage

I'm thinking maybe a potentiometer and ammeter would be easier.

Calvin

[alchymist]

Originally Posted by mprice

I wasn't so much responding to you as to the post before yours; sorry to quote yours instead. If someone just wants a guage to show relative gas production he'll need an ammeter and not a voltmeter.

I assumed you would be sending a PWM signal into a SSR from a uC relative to air flow. The operator controlled value would be a fixed H/Air ratio. You would need to periodically sample the gas generator's resistance and use that to apply the correct voltage to give the required current. If my Chem101 wasn't so rusty I might be able to give a good gas volume/amps ratio.

Summary:
Sample rpm
Sample gas generator resistance
Sample ambient temp
Read desired H ratio

RPM * displacement = intake volume/minute
Intake volume * temp correction * g/ltr for air = intake mass
intake mass * H ratio setting = H mass needed
H mass needed * amps correction = amps needed
amps needed * generator resistance = volts needed

Output/Adjust PWM signal to SSR to get the right Voltage

I'm thinking maybe a potentiometer and ammeter would be easier.

Calvin

Since you guys seem to have this well in hand, I guess I'll just bow out.........
Just one more comment - why sample "generator resistance? Assuming the thing is running and you're controlling it, you already know the resistance - you know the voltage applied and the current drawn at any given instant..........why make the job harder than it is????

[mprice]

Originally Posted by alchymist

Since you guys seem to have this well in hand, I guess I'll just bow out.........
Just one more comment - why sample "generator resistance? Assuming the thing is running and you're controlling it, you already know the resistance - you know the voltage applied and the current drawn at any given instant..........why make the job harder than it is????

I've always considered it easier to build something to output a given voltage versus a given current when high power is needed. It's also a lot easier to sense voltage than current. No doubt there's more than one way to do it.

Calvin

[F250_]

Don't leave, now, alchymist... your input is not just welcome, but needed. In this arena, I'm full of ideas without practical electronics knowledge to turn them into something meaningful. In fact, I'm just now wondering if it might be simpler to use the air velocity in the intake tube and control to the engine's natural air flow demand that is generated by the turbo... controlling an H:air volume ratio, essentially.

I know that amient temperatures, humidity, and barometric pressure make the volumetric flow not nearly as exact as a "mass" air flow, but since virtually all of the "commerically available" generators are controlling to nothing - just outputting gas on a steady basis - this volumetric flow ratio would be an improvement over their systems and, perhaps easier than what we've talked about thus far??

What do you guys think? Fire away.

[TraderJ]

Guys,
I know a good bit about hydrogen production and IC motors.

All this is not as easy as parkland says...and the mileage is not going to boost to a 5 mpg gain.

All I will say is if you are truley interested in learning more about hydrogen production
and running mixes in IC motors you need to read and study ALOT!
This is not a new concept ...There are real dangers and a handful of you are about to ruin a $6000 motor for 1-2mpg if you get it to work.

There are bubblers for safety to keep you from ummm...dying
Depending on your plate config. your voltage and amp values are going to change.

There is a miilion variables and it is not as easy as wire hangers baking soda and water.
(btw ...the more baking soda does not increase hydrogen production..it is simply a better solution for hydro)

Please go to this website and seach the forums on hydro production and diesels and/or gassers (same thing) This will start to help you understand what is involved. They don't sell anything...they are just like us here...trying to help the next guy.

WWW.OUPOWER.COM (these guys live for this stuff and are a hell of alot smarter than most of us on the subject)

I am not being negative...It can and will work...but in diesels without mods you will completely destroy you motor.
One thing to keep in mind ...hydro burned in the head=WATER...more than you think...not good for our diesels.
Most test moters running straight or mixes are shot in a shot period of time.

Great thread though...and def keep reading and learning about hydro...it will be the way in the future

Check that site out...go to the forums...you will be up all night!
Very cool stuff!

[David85]

Why would a small amount of water in the head be a bad thing?

[TraderJ]

The water introduced is the least of the problems...It probably would be fine for awhile.
All I ways trying to say is read...read...read...Look on utube, there are tons or electrolizer designs and different ways to build a hydro booster. Lots of people including myself have built hydro boosters. Just be careful

Hydro ignites or I should say explodes at a extremely fast rate ...way faster than gas or diesel...that's why it is so difficult to run a car on hydro because hydro doesn't have near the energy as gas/diesel...it takes loads more hydro to power a IC motor than with gas/diesel

This is an experimental type deal, not a build it and get 25 mpg thing. trust me if it was that easy ....well you know the rest.

Look at these and keep searching ....it is possible like I said...but don't experiment if you rely on you truck to get you to work. Buy a junker and use it.

http://oupower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1796&highlight=diesel
http://oupower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1408&highlight=diesel

[crosbo]

So, don't purchase one of those "nice" systems being sold on ebay...and add it our our Strokes to increase the efficiency of our engines...and combat the overall expense of running our rigs (fuel price increases)?

[Chance_Thomas]

Here is a good link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdVevvgM3ho

[rmilchman]

Originally Posted by Chance_Thomas

Here is a good link.

Very interesting. When does the water shortage start

[F250_]

Originally Posted by TraderJ

The water introduced is the least of the problems...It probably would be fine for awhile.
....

TraderJ, I've been considering what you've said here ever sine you first posted this information, and I am wondering why the water would be any issue at all.

When you look at the materials of construction and use in internal combustion engines, are not we using virtually the exact same materials in the combustion chambers for both gasoline and diesel engines. We all know that one byproduct of the gasoline combustion is water because we can see it dripping from tailpipes. But don't both engines use similar piston/ring materials, iron blocks, iron exhaust headers, and non-stainless exhaust systems.

Now, I know that we have a turbo that is mild steel while the gassers are typically not running a turbo... so is that the point of contention in this water issue? Or is there something else I'm missing here?

Also, can you enlighten us on more of the details regarding the "other issues" which result in engine failures for those who run a hydroboost setup? I know that I have seen one or two people suggest issues like "hydrogen embrittlement" for combustion chamber/exhaust components, but can't find any scientific data or reports to substantiate that suggestion.

Keep in mind that I am not necessarily saying you're wrong... I just want to see some research information that addresses these issues specifically.

Also, just to prevent an assumption on your part, I have spent some time (perhaps not enough) looking through the two links you provided. However, I am still left without any information supporting your post aside from seeing yet "more ways to skin the cat" in terms of hydrobooster designs.

Any good information would be greatly appreciated.

[kennedyford]

What was the final outcome of this post. Did anyone make another generator for an occasional juice of power or a bubble melody to increase the oxygen and hydrogen in the naturally aspiration pre turbo lines?