...By the way, if Epsom Salt makes a good electrolyte,,,,,,,then a little residue getting into the combustion chamber would be a good thing..........the other so far mentioned electrolytes would Not be good.......
crossbones
So you're saying that both baking soda and lye (or straight caustic) are NOT the right electrolytes to use?
The thing I have wondered about is the potential for any SO2 with the Epsom Salts, but I haven't even tried to dig through the "bonding forces" issue to see if that's a potential or not.
If you use stainless plates instead of wires then the surface area should be large enough for effective electrolysis without having to add an electrolyte. Strait tap water is rarely pure to the point of not allowing electrolysis, harder to make, but easier to use in the long run.
__________________
1986 F250HD Ex cab Fresh built up 6.9L diesel, Lariat AC leather seats power everything w/full cluster, sterling rear 3.08LS gears, E4OD trans, ram intake ATS 088 turbo
1986 F150 Ex cab Lariat rollercam 5.0L on LPG AOD trans 3.55 gears 390 000Ks
I have up loaded a typical example of a Hydrogen Booster for a Gas Engine to my gallery.
I saw the same thing. I think I even posted a link to it earler. I noticed they are running 30 amps on that one. The plates in this design have a much more significant surface area than parklands coat hangers so I didn't know if this was overkill or not. Any idea why they did not match the surface area for the + & - (cathode/anode) plates. I would have thought you would want the same surface area on both poles.
I noticed a couple comments her that i'd like to answer...
First, about that "salt" from a drugstore that doesnt make any gas? Then it stays in the vessell and next time you'll have 2x too much salt in the mix.
JUST USE BAKING SODA!
Instead of using tubes with water in them, use flame arresting couplings! My system now has a compressor, H-tank, adjuster, pressure meter, production adjusting dial, and i have 4 in-line flame arrestors. (not 100% done)
I dont think that vaccuum will increase production. I think this is just a rumor started, because the bubbles get bigger. Still the same amount of gas.
My pressurized tank is fit under the cab, with a "weakened" end on 1 side, so that if she blows, it will hit the wheel well, and blow the flame towards the back of the truck.
The small tank in my pictures, holds and incredible amount of H. more than you'd ever need. Works for cruising , and tire ripping.
I dont have any in-cab guages, or anything set up permanently, but i have a guage on the H tank, (wich is pressurized by the compressor, with a flame arrestor on each side) and 100 psi is enough to roast the tires for about 15 ft, and then you have about 95 lbs.
Not bad for a plastic tank.
I realize how appealing it looks to have a plate system, i prefer the rod system because of the size keeping it kool.
?Heres and idea i had for a compact "under the hood" system, with help for heat and size problems.
1. Make small compact rugged container that will fit where u want.
2. Place rad-type small cooler near fan, or in front.
3. Install "resevoir" with a lid, a bottom supply, and near top return. possibly a bottom drain cap.
4. Install small dc water pump.
Run hose so that the pump sucks water from the bottom of the res., and pushes it through the generator, and the throught the rad, on the way to the resevoir.
Invent an air line from the air intake, to the new H resevoir, and also add a small line to the res. that will connect to a small filter (that should have less restriction than the ari in the airbox.
There. itl stay cool, no "linguring" gases, exept for a "leaned out" hose from the trucks airbox, to the H resevoir.
Pete. I over looked the use of baking soda, I do not have any information good or bad of it's effect during the combustion process.
F350-6. In theroy, using a biased number of plates shifts the percentage amounts of hydrogen or oxygen produced............more negative plates, more hydrogen????????????..........
for the record, above where I stated the expansion ratio of electrolysis of water was about 1800 to 1, that includes oxygen as well, just hydrogen would be about 1200 to 1.
crossbones
__________________
1989 Super Duty Rollback..Beru GPs...Delphi Injectors.. (10,250# empty, 5.13 RA.....started with about 9.7 MPG....timing change resulted in 11.1 MPG...installed out of the box new injectors,timing change 12.7 MPG, rebuilt IP timing change 13.8 MPG....target 18 MPG)
If done right this will be a pretty effective system, but understanding the whole concpet is the hard part.Using AC current is not a effective means of making hydrogen. DC current is need to prevent cross plating , you want the ions to only go one way and stay there. Using AC they will want to go from cathode to anode.This is why mass produced hydrogen is made using DC power.Electrolysis of water can be observed by passing direct current from a battery or other DC power supply through a cup of water (in practice a saltwater solution increases the reaction intensity making it easier to observe). Using platinum electrodes, hydrogen gas will be seen to bubble up at the cathode, and oxygen will bubble at the anode. If other metals are used as the anode, there is a chance that the oxygen will react with the anode instead of being released as a gas. For example using iron electrodes in a sodium chloride solution electrolyte, iron oxide will be produced at the anode, which will react to form iron hydroxide. When producing large quantities of hydrogen, this can significantly contaminate the electrolytic cell - which is why iron is not used for commercial electrolysis.
The energy efficiency of water electrolysis varies widely. The efficiency is a measure of what fraction of electrical energy used is actually contained within the hydrogen. Some of the electrical energy is converted to heat, a useless by-product. Some reports quote efficiencies between 50 and 70% This efficiency is based on the Lower Heating Value of Hydrogen. The Lower Heating Value of Hydrogen is thermal energy released when Hydrogen is combusted. This does not represent the total amount of energy within the Hydrogen, hence the efficiency is lower than a more strict definition. Other reports quote the theoretical maximum efficiency of electrolysis. The theoretical maximum efficiency is between 80 and 94%.The theoretical maximum considers the total amount of energy absorbed by both the hydrogen and oxygen. These values only refer to the efficiency of converting electrical energy into hydrogen's chemical energy. The energy lost in generating the electricity is not included. For instance, when considering a power plant that converts the heat of nuclear reactions into hydrogen via electrolysis, the total efficiency is more like 25–40%.
I noticed a couple comments her that i'd like to answer...
First, about that "salt" from a drugstore that doesnt make any gas? Then it stays in the vessell and next time you'll have 2x too much salt in the mix.
JUST USE BAKING SODA!
Instead of using tubes with water in them, use flame arresting couplings! My system now has a compressor, H-tank, adjuster, pressure meter, production adjusting dial, and i have 4 in-line flame arrestors. (not 100% done)
I dont think that vaccuum will increase production. I think this is just a rumor started, because the bubbles get bigger. Still the same amount of gas.
My pressurized tank is fit under the cab, with a "weakened" end on 1 side, so that if she blows, it will hit the wheel well, and blow the flame towards the back of the truck.
The small tank in my pictures, holds and incredible amount of H. more than you'd ever need. Works for cruising , and tire ripping.
I dont have any in-cab guages, or anything set up permanently, but i have a guage on the H tank, (wich is pressurized by the compressor, with a flame arrestor on each side) and 100 psi is enough to roast the tires for about 15 ft, and then you have about 95 lbs.
Not bad for a plastic tank.
I realize how appealing it looks to have a plate system, i prefer the rod system because of the size keeping it kool.
?Heres and idea i had for a compact "under the hood" system, with help for heat and size problems.
1. Make small compact rugged container that will fit where u want.
2. Place rad-type small cooler near fan, or in front.
3. Install "resevoir" with a lid, a bottom supply, and near top return. possibly a bottom drain cap.
4. Install small dc water pump.
Run hose so that the pump sucks water from the bottom of the res., and pushes it through the generator, and the throught the rad, on the way to the resevoir.
Invent an air line from the air intake, to the new H resevoir, and also add a small line to the res. that will connect to a small filter (that should have less restriction than the ari in the airbox.
There. itl stay cool, no "linguring" gases, exept for a "leaned out" hose from the trucks airbox, to the H resevoir.
I was thinking that in the pipes, you could run water, freon, what ever for cooling and never think about boiling and not cross mixing.
Anyone think of a water pump blader tank for resurve.
__________________
03, CC,F350,DRW,SB,4WD,7.3,AFE II Pro 7,CCV MOD,THREE GAUGES,4739, DP TUNER with Permagrin setting, 5" Cannon, Zodad, AIH Delete, Power Slots, Hawks. TCLUS. Coolant Filter, Sonnix, Fuel Pump Shim.....SOLD
I noticed a couple comments her that i'd like to answer...
First, about that "salt" from a drugstore that doesnt make any gas? Then it stays in the vessell and next time you'll have 2x too much salt in the mix.
JUST USE BAKING SODA!
Instead of using tubes with water in them, use flame arresting couplings! My system now has a compressor, H-tank, adjuster, pressure meter, production adjusting dial, and i have 4 in-line flame arrestors. (not 100% done)
I dont think that vaccuum will increase production. I think this is just a rumor started, because the bubbles get bigger. Still the same amount of gas.
My pressurized tank is fit under the cab, with a "weakened" end on 1 side, so that if she blows, it will hit the wheel well, and blow the flame towards the back of the truck.
The small tank in my pictures, holds and incredible amount of H. more than you'd ever need. Works for cruising , and tire ripping.
I dont have any in-cab guages, or anything set up permanently, but i have a guage on the H tank, (wich is pressurized by the compressor, with a flame arrestor on each side) and 100 psi is enough to roast the tires for about 15 ft, and then you have about 95 lbs.
Not bad for a plastic tank.
I realize how appealing it looks to have a plate system, i prefer the rod system because of the size keeping it kool.
?Heres and idea i had for a compact "under the hood" system, with help for heat and size problems.
1. Make small compact rugged container that will fit where u want.
2. Place rad-type small cooler near fan, or in front.
3. Install "resevoir" with a lid, a bottom supply, and near top return. possibly a bottom drain cap.
4. Install small dc water pump.
Run hose so that the pump sucks water from the bottom of the res., and pushes it through the generator, and the throught the rad, on the way to the resevoir.
Invent an air line from the air intake, to the new H resevoir, and also add a small line to the res. that will connect to a small filter (that should have less restriction than the ari in the airbox.
There. itl stay cool, no "linguring" gases, exept for a "leaned out" hose from the trucks airbox, to the H resevoir.
The system you are describing sounds like the pre-made kit I am looking at buying from http://www.fuelfromh2o.com/
It has a small generator with an external tank with a level sensor that can be automatically filled from a remote tank. They are also using white vinegar as a base instead of baking soda. The 11a Magdrive unit looks like its producing 3 liter/min at 9 amps.
__________________
2002 CrewCab Shortbed 7.3l Powerstroke F-250 with matching topper. 3.73 Gears peg leg. Mac cold air intake.
Just some more context for thought here. # liters per hour is really a tiny smidgen of what our engines can handle. The commercially available units for our engine size produce over 100 liters per minute.
Another word about SALT -- DO NOT use SALT, as in NaCl, or table salt... you WILL produce a highly toxic chlorine gas that is not only highly toxic in EXTREMELY small quantities, but it is also SEVERELY CORROSIVE to virtually all but the most exotic metals (like titanium or SMO254 & ALX6N alloys).
To make this system work ideally, you want a % of hydrogen, to a % of fuel being burned.
Before this starts to sound overwhelming, listen to this....
Because of the turbocharger, our air intake cfm , should be a fairly close way to measure fuel consumption.
All we need is a airflow sensor, and a way to hook it either to increase amps/voltage with airspeed increase, or in my case (with a pressurized supply tank) to open the valve more.
Now, lets look at some scenarios....
ON, waiting for glow plugs, 0 cfm, 0 hydrogen
On, cranking, barely and cfm, miniscule hydrogen
Idling, low cfm, low hydrogen
driving normally, normal cfm, moderate hydrogen
towing, high cfm, high hydrogen output
Racing, max cfm, max hydrogen.
Anyone have any ideas how to put a air flow sensor in the air intake, and make it control the amount of amps? if this could be figured out, the rest could be simply the amount of electrolyte, or baking soda, to add to a generator, and some pretty decent results would be around the corner.
Even the bought systems just put the constant amount of hydrogen.
If a system like this was implemented, you'd always be getting your maximum efficency (once you figured out how much electrolyte your generator needs to get in the sweet spot)
PS guys, I honestly think my 7.3 is putting at least 400 hp out when i hit the H , since i raced a neighbor, with a 6.0 chipped (100hp gain) and he had no chance. I want to give her more, but i get scared, because the truck shifts so hard, it feels like somethings gonna rip off. It normally shifts perfectly, but when i open that little valve, and mash the pedal, instead of the diesel "ROAR", i'm sounding more like a monster truck.
I'm guessing to do this, is about 300-400 cfm.
Making me dis-believe those specs on systems that you can buy.
Imagine if i could afford a DP-tuner! ...Turn that puppy right up, and give her full hydrogen....
I dont want to tell anyone to make browns gas and inject it into your air intake, but i did, and once you start playin around, burnouts start happenin' ....
After researching some specs, some close targets may be:
(sorry about LITERS per minute)
H output at 100 km/h no trailer, flat, should be near 80 liters/ hour
If you can calculate how much fuel the truck burns at that scenario, it should be easy to calculate what % of hydrogen is needed.
ANYONE have a calculator and a spec on fuel consumption?
I'm thinking that despite my crude approach to this, the best way is to make an airflow/fuel usage monitor for controlling hydrogen production.
This will ultimately give even more HP, more MPG ,etc.
It will also, like i wrote in my last post, prevent gas from being generated during startup, or if engine dies.
PS, my coat hanger rods are almost shot after a mere 300 kilometers of use, so definately go for stainless steel.
ANOTHER thing i thought i would mention, is that once the rods became pitted, the reaction really took off, so mabye take an angle grinder to the surface of your rods or plates, to ruff them up, as opposed to perfectly flat.
Great posts everyone !!!
Yours truly,
Parkland
Heres some names for my truck in decision:
"The Redneck Rocket"
"The hydrogen Ho-Rider"
"The whoopee Cushion"
"F250 Deathtrap edition"
"F250 Tree hugger special"
"Divorce Maker"
"Betty"
I just thought it would be funny to call a truck betty.
We really need Ernest to do some calculatin'. He could probably give you all the data you need. Keep in mind, the glow plugs can still be on for a short time after the engine starts.
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