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  #31  
Old 12-05-2007, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by i eat hybrids
U are also comparing a 6.0l to a 5.4l. The 6.0l already has .6L over the 5.4 and the 6.0l has pushrods. We all kno pushrod engines make more power.

So i visited our favorite truck manufacturers' website and came up with some interesting numbers.

5.3L Chevy = 315 HP @ 5600 RPM and 338 lb-ft @ 4800 RPM
6.0L Chevy SRW = 353 HP @ 5400 RPM and 373 lb-ft @4600 RPM
6.0L Chevy DRW = 312 HP @ 4400 RPM and 373 lb-ft @4000 RPM

5.4L FORD = 300HP @ 5000 RPM and 365 lb-ft @ 3750 RPM
6.8L FORD = 362HP @ 4750 RPM and 457 lb-ft @ 3250 RPM

So I guess these pushrod motors do make more power than a the SOHC motors right? The Chevy HP averages between the 2 motors is roughly 59 hp/L and the Ford avg is 54 hp/L.

I'll give Chevy the credit they deserve for that, but on the same note, I REALLY don't want to HAVE to REV my engine to 5400 RPM to get the power I need. Granted 5000 RPM isn't much better, but I am WAY more comfortable pushing the RPM's out of a cammer than a pushrod motor. I guess i've thrown too many rods in my day.

Now lets look at what really matters --> TORQUE. TO refresh your memory in case you forgot, this is what is really important on your truck, TURNING FORCE!

The Chevy motors make on average 63 lb-ft/ L where as the Ford engines make slightly over 67 lb-ft/ L. Not to mention, it is a substantially lower RPM than the chevy's.

Now I would really like to see the torque curves for both of these engines and compare, but I am pretty sure based on the numbers furnished by the manufacturer that the Ford will have a much more useable power band than the Chevy.

Not to mention, the chevy motors feature VVT and DOD on some of them. All ford did was add a third valve.

between the lower RPM's and superior torque I think it is fairly obvious the good old Mod motor is much better suited for a truck application than the pushrod buggers. If the 8.1 was still around, this debate would totally different... but the General killed the last gasser they had going for them. I wish they would've dropped that Japanese diesel... but thats just me.
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  #32  
Old 12-05-2007, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.4L to Freedom

I'll give Chevy the credit they deserve for that, but on the same note, I REALLY don't want to HAVE to REV my engine to 5400 RPM to get the power I need. Granted 5000 RPM isn't much better, but I am WAY more comfortable pushing the RPM's out of a cammer than a pushrod motor. I guess i've thrown too many rods in my day.
Agreed. The lower the RPM the better, and the Ford produces HP and TRQ at lower RPM. And even though these motors are built to spin up without coming apart, doing so for long periods is shortening motor life. Yes, you can pull hills at highway speed in first gear at 5k, but your motor is paying the price.

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  #33  
Old 12-05-2007, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.4L to Freedom
Now lets look at what really matters --> TORQUE. TO refresh your memory in case you forgot, this is what is really important on your truck, TURNING FORCE!
That's not really true. Horsepower is the ultimate determiner of how much load you can move and how fast you can move it, torque is only part of the equation. But, as you correctly pointed out, you don't want to rev your motor high in order to get the power you want.

For instance, my GM 383 stroker with 330 HP and 400 lb. ft. will easily out-tow my 7.3, with 250 HP and 525 lb. ft., but I would rather use the Ford, because it is only turning around 2,000 rpm at its maximum HP point, as opposed to 4,000, or whatever.

All the large torque numbers do is push the horsepower peak down to a lower RPM.
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  #34  
Old 12-05-2007, 12:46 PM
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kel, which engine is going o feel less like its struggling though? I think the diesel would because its making all of its power round 2k and i hills u really dont have to rev it at all to get full power.
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  #35  
Old 12-05-2007, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KelVarnson
That's not really true. Horsepower is the ultimate determiner of how much load you can move and how fast you can move it, torque is only part of the equation. But, as you correctly pointed out, you don't want to rev your motor high in order to get the power you want.

For instance, my GM 383 stroker with 330 HP and 400 lb. ft. will easily out-tow my 7.3, with 250 HP and 525 lb. ft., but I would rather use the Ford, because it is only turning around 2,000 rpm at its maximum HP point, as opposed to 4,000, or whatever.

All the large torque numbers do is push the horsepower peak down to a lower RPM.
Now we are getting into the good stuff My understanding of truck applications were you use the torque to do the work, and your horsepower is mot much more than a measure of HOW FAST the work is done. I think you have a good point about your stroker towing, but wouldn't the diesel still be more optimal because yes, it would not do it AS FAST but you have more turning force to move you up hills.

The calculation for horsepower is torque (lb-ft) * RPM / 5252

without much torque, your engine must gain those RPM to compensate.

But this is why I love FTE, argue, discuss and learn
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  #36  
Old 12-05-2007, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.4L to i eat hybrids
kel, which engine is going to feel less like its struggling though?
The reality is, the lower-powered diesel would be "struggling" more, but the gasser would be making a hell of a lot more noise. And who wants to listen to that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.4L to Freedom
Now we are getting into the good stuff My understanding of truck applications were you use the torque to do the work, and your horsepower is mot much more than a measure of HOW FAST the work is done.
Yes, but isn't that what really matters? How fast you can tow a trailer up a hill? Any time you are talking about power (i.e. HP), you are talking about the capacity to do work. Work is force times distance, and power adds time to the equation. So higher HP means you move a given load over a given distance in less time.

It is always interesting (at least to me) to note that you can have tons of torque with zero power. Of course, you won't get any work done.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.4L to Freedom
I think you have a good point about your stroker towing, but wouldn't the diesel still be more optimal because yes, it would not do it AS FAST but you have more turning force to move you up hills.
It won't get you up the hill as fast, because while you may have more turning force at the crankshaft, by the time you get through the gears, you will have less turning force at the rear wheels.

But, as far as your point about which is more "optimal", I tend to agree. My stroker is always going to win the race to the top of the hill, but I would rather use my lower-powered diesel to tow, it is a way more comfortable experience. I guess it depends on which makes you more uncomfortable, listening to a screaming gas engine, or looking at that long line of cars stuck behind you on a hill.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.4L to Freedom
But this is why I love FTE, argue, discuss and learn
I agree

Last edited by KelVarnson; 12-05-2007 at 01:33 PM.
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  #37  
Old 12-05-2007, 02:03 PM
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[QUOTE=5.4L to Freedom]Originally Posted by i eat hybrids
U are also comparing a 6.0l to a 5.4l. The 6.0l already has .6L over the 5.4 and the 6.0l has pushrods. We all kno pushrod engines make more power.

So i visited our favorite truck manufacturers' website and came up with some interesting numbers.

5.3L Chevy = 315 HP @ 5600 RPM and 338 lb-ft @ 4800 RPM
6.0L Chevy SRW = 353 HP @ 5400 RPM and 373 lb-ft @4600 RPM
6.0L Chevy DRW = 312 HP @ 4400 RPM and 373 lb-ft @4000 RPM

5.4L FORD = 300HP @ 5000 RPM and 365 lb-ft @ 3750 RPM
6.8L FORD = 362HP @ 4750 RPM and 457 lb-ft @ 3250 RPM
QUOTE]

So I guess the 6.0l have slightly less hp than the 6.8l V10. Didn't know for shure about specific numbers as I never ever consider a Chebby or a Dodge for that matter when buying a truck so I don't do the research on them.



Man you have to rev those chebbys to get to the peak. The Ford engines are obviously built for towing and work with the peak torque curves much lower in the rpm range than the chebby. Many people think Pushrod motors are very torquey but those numbers don't show it.
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  #38  
Old 12-05-2007, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KelVarnson
That's not really true. Horsepower is the ultimate determiner of how much load you can move and how fast you can move it, torque is only part of the equation. But, as you correctly pointed out, you don't want to rev your motor high in order to get the power you want.

For instance, my GM 383 stroker with 330 HP and 400 lb. ft. will easily out-tow my 7.3, with 250 HP and 525 lb. ft., but I would rather use the Ford, because it is only turning around 2,000 rpm at its maximum HP point, as opposed to 4,000, or whatever.

All the large torque numbers do is push the horsepower peak down to a lower RPM.
Is your 383 in a heavy truck with the heavy and power robbing 1-ton drivetrain?I think the diesel would perform better.
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  #39  
Old 12-05-2007, 02:14 PM
KelVarnson KelVarnson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkf
Is your 383 in a heavy truck with the heavy and power robbing 1-ton drivetrain?I think the diesel would perform better.
The truck isn't as heavy, but the drivetrain is (NP205, Corporate 14-bolt, 4.10's, 35's).

But that is beside the point. If the two motors were in identical trucks with identical loads, but optimal gearing for each, the higher-horsepower motor will win the race to the top of the hill. That is my point.
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  #40  
Old 12-05-2007, 02:49 PM
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i wonder if advanced adapters makes adapters to put a big block chevrolet in my f-250.
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  #41  
Old 12-05-2007, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mrkevin
i wonder if advanced adapters makes adapters to put a big block chevrolet in my f-250.
That may be strectching it a little too far However a 460 will fit right in
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  #42  
Old 12-05-2007, 03:46 PM
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why would u want to put a big block chevy in a ford??? When u could mod the v-10. www.sullivanperformance.com They specialize in mod motors and carry mainly 4.6 and 5.4 parts. BUT, most of the parts (internals) fit in the v-10. So y wouldnt u bore out a v-10 and put bigger 5.4 pistons in them? U can also get custom made cams, supercharge it, etc.
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  #43  
Old 12-05-2007, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i eat hybrids
why would u want to put a big block chevy in a ford??? When u could mod the v-10. www.sullivanperformance.com They specialize in mod motors and carry mainly 4.6 and 5.4 parts. BUT, most of the parts (internals) fit in the v-10. So y wouldnt u bore out a v-10 and put bigger 5.4 pistons in them? U can also get custom made cams, supercharge it, etc.
MrKevin over there is confused son, hopefully if we give him time to think about what he just said he'll take it back
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  #44  
Old 12-05-2007, 04:02 PM
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I just sent the tech guy on that sight an email about hopping up a v-10. Besides the .30 over pistons and aftermarket rods, they really dont have much for the v-10. They have a crap load of parts for the 5.4 though!
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  #45  
Old 12-05-2007, 07:29 PM
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i have only been a ford owner for 2 weeks, sold my hopped up d-max and bought a 5.4 ford to lower my payments.
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Old 12-05-2007, 07:29 PM
 
 
 
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