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  #1  
Old 11-22-2007, 11:43 AM
JohnHennessey JohnHennessey is offline
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Propane Injection

I am thinking of adding propane injection to my F550. Does anybody have any experience or heard anything positive or negative?
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  #2  
Old 11-22-2007, 08:59 PM
archangel archangel is offline
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Why would you want to do that?

Are you pushing the maximum HP limits as it is or are you just wanting to add another gadget?
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Had to sell the Gray 1991 F250 standard cab, 7.3, E4OD, 3.55:1, stock wheels and tires.
It had a verified 19 mpg city taking off slow as hell then shutting it down at red lights, and with the radiator grill blocked flush, no bed cover, "drag shoot" mirrors still on I got 24 mpg at 50 to 55 mph on the freeway empty!
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  #3  
Old 11-23-2007, 02:02 PM
JohnHennessey JohnHennessey is offline
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I pull a 16500 lbs 5th wheel and alot of my driving is in the mountains. I've heard that you can get a discount for the propane as a clean fuel and that you can increase the performance because it enables the diesel to burn more completely, thus improving your mileage.
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  #4  
Old 11-23-2007, 04:42 PM
archangel archangel is offline
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A discount?
But do you know how much less energy is in propane, and how much more you need to use to get the same work out of it?
Ethanol has 77,000 BTU's
Gasoline has 125,00 BTU's
Diesel has 138,690 BTU's
Propane has 91,500 BTU's

You can also get more energy out of diesel as it handles a much higher compression ratio, and a higher compression ratio squeezes more energy out of a fuel if it can handle it.
With Ethanol and 14:1 compression ratio you can just about equal Gasoline ad 9:1

Well to keep the smoke level that comes out of the tail pipe down, the air to fuel ratio is vary high to insure all the diesel gets enough O2 to burn it all, so there is extra O2 (or air) left over.

Some overfuel their Diesels and they like the added power but all that smoke out the tail pipe is unburnt fuel and the same as money tossed out the tail pipe.

Adding propane should help burn the extra O2 in there adding a little more power, but increasing the boost level and adding more diesel fuel would do the same thing, but your mileage would suffer.

And Nitrous oxide has more O2 that Air does and it would super cool the intake charge as it's injected condensing the air already in there and you could dump even more diesel fuel in there and get even more power.

Fuel is fuel and at a steady or light throttle you would burn less Diesel fuel, but you would be replacing it with propane fuel.

To make more power you need to burn more fuel and your $$ spent per mile for fuel (propane or diesel) will be higher.

If you want better "FUEL" mileage take off those HUGE mirrors that act like drag racing "braking parachutes" then block off the radiator inlet flush with the front grill which acts as another "braking parachute" and you should get much better mileage without spending extra money on propane injection gadgets and extra $$$ spent on propane fuel.

Keep a record of your $$$ spent on ALL FUELS used and the miles you cover while using those fuels so you will know what is cheaper and what is not.

Does the trailer stick out taller than the truck top?
If so a wind deflector would help as well.

And ask yourself, is getting over that hill 20 seconds faster than last time worth the added expence of more money spent on fuel and the added expence on the gadgets used to burn more fuel?

Diesel at $3.00 a gallon with 15 MPG is .20 c per mile
1000 miles would cost $200
5mpg better and it's only $150
Saving's = $50 per 1000 miles

Diesel at $3.50 a gallon with 15 MPG is .23 c per mile
1000 miles would cost $230
5mpg better and it's only $175
Saving's = $55 per 1000 miles

Diesel at $4.00 a gallon with 15 MPG is .26 c per mile
1000 miles would cost $260
5mpg better and it's only $200
Saving's = $60 per 1000 miles

Diesel at $5.00 a gallon with 15 MPG is .33 c per mile
1000 miles would cost $330
5mpg better and it's only $250
Saving's = $80 per 1000 miles

Diesel at $10.00 a gallon with 15 MPG is .66 c per mile
1000 miles would cost $660
5mpg better and it's only $500
Saving's = $160 per 1000 miles

Diesel at $15 a gallon with 15 MPG is $1 per mile
1000 miles would cost $1000
5mpg better and it's only $750
Saving's = $250 per 1000 miles

As the cost of fuel goes up, just 5mpg better saves you more, and more money.

The truck I drive at work only gets 6 mpg, and at $3.00 a gallon that's .50 c per mile driven in fuel cost alone!
That's $500 in fuel to go 1000 miles!

Diesel is now over $3.50 a gallon
Now that's $583 in fuel for me to go 1000 miles!

Diesel will be $5 a gallon soon, real soon, and when that happens my truck will cost $830 to go 1000 miles and that's in fuel alone!

Your $5 piece of 2X4 lumber at Home Depot will soon be costing you $15.
That 85c head of lettuce will be $3 and $8 out of season because of the cost of fuel to haul it!!

Have you seen the price of copper pipe?!

DUDE! SCREW ADDING MORE POWER AND GO FOR MILEAGE!
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Had to sell the Gray 1991 F250 standard cab, 7.3, E4OD, 3.55:1, stock wheels and tires.
It had a verified 19 mpg city taking off slow as hell then shutting it down at red lights, and with the radiator grill blocked flush, no bed cover, "drag shoot" mirrors still on I got 24 mpg at 50 to 55 mph on the freeway empty!

Last edited by archangel; 11-23-2007 at 05:03 PM.
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  #5  
Old 11-23-2007, 04:55 PM
JohnHennessey JohnHennessey is offline
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thanks for your perspective. I really don't need any more power. I just want to improve mileage. Propane is about $2.00 per gal. I am told that Fireumup has converted a f250 that was getting 15 miles per gal and now they are getting 26 miles per gal. I get 9.5 miles per gal while pulling, 11.5 just going around town and not pulling. I'm alittle afraid of propane because it will cause the engine to run hotter. I would need to increase the exhaust to a 4" rather than the 3" stock. I just put a Banks billet torque converter with the trans command module to increase transmission efficiency. We'll see if we get better mileage since the tranny won't be slipping up those 6% 10 mile long grades. I'm afraid there not much I can do to lower our wind profile. My RV is a tall one at 13.5'. I'm heading out to CA for the winter and then heading up to Alaska for the summer. I would like to get alittle better mileage especially since diesel is even higher in Canada. Go figure they export more of their oil than they use and they are still more expensive than in the US.
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  #6  
Old 11-24-2007, 02:34 PM
OUTPLAYN OUTPLAYN is offline
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Dude....I am right there with ya...I am not looking for more power...Just get the extra MPG...But I am not going to pay 700-1000 for a kit that I have put together myself for way less.

And there are plenty of trucks around my area that run...straight on propane!

And here in IL...there is a nice amount of money given back for burning propane in your ride
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  #7  
Old 11-25-2007, 01:45 PM
07psdrookie 07psdrookie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OUTPLAYN
Dude....I am right there with ya...I am not looking for more power...Just get the extra MPG...But I am not going to pay 700-1000 for a kit that I have put together myself for way less.

And there are plenty of trucks around my area that run...straight on propane!

And here in IL...there is a nice amount of money given back for burning propane in your ride
What do you guys mean "money given back." Is that meaning like a tax exemption or just money in your pocket because propane is cheaper than diesel?
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  #8  
Old 11-25-2007, 04:58 PM
Tom D Tom D is offline
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What's your opinion on water/alcohol injection? Will the mileage improve?
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  #9  
Old 11-25-2007, 07:58 PM
07psdrookie 07psdrookie is offline
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I've heard good things. It's better for emissions and can slightly improve mileage depending on your mix and injector size.
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  #10  
Old 11-25-2007, 08:08 PM
07psdrookie 07psdrookie is offline
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^Water/Methonal^
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  #11  
Old 11-26-2007, 09:40 AM
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Phydeaux88 Phydeaux88 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHennessey
I pull a 16500 lbs 5th wheel and alot of my driving is in the mountains. I've heard that you can get a discount for the propane as a clean fuel and that you can increase the performance because it enables the diesel to burn more completely, thus improving your mileage.
I run Propane injection (see signature note PowerShot 2000) in my F250 when pulling my fiver.

It will increase RWHP. I have not dynoed mine but a friend, with the same setup as I have, has dynoed his and he gets as much as 80 HP increase if everything is tuned right.

You will not save money with propane because the slight increase in fuel economy is eaten up by the cost of the propane.
A good propane system will cost you approx $1000 to set up. Homemade systems are very risky and do not operate as efficiently as a well regulated commercial system.
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:06 PM
archangel archangel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom D
What's your opinion on water/alcohol injection? Will the mileage improve?
Water/alcohol injection is used to cool the intake charge and act as a detonation/preignition control when running turbo systems or compression ratios to their upper limits.

If you are not pushing the upper limits, it's not needed.
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Had to sell the Gray 1991 F250 standard cab, 7.3, E4OD, 3.55:1, stock wheels and tires.
It had a verified 19 mpg city taking off slow as hell then shutting it down at red lights, and with the radiator grill blocked flush, no bed cover, "drag shoot" mirrors still on I got 24 mpg at 50 to 55 mph on the freeway empty!
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Old 11-27-2007, 06:52 PM
AndysFords AndysFords is offline
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Does anyone know about putting propane on a non-turbocharged engine? Will it work? I run Waste Veggie oil and sometimes if I forget to swap back to diesel I have to spray ether in my truck to get it to crank. I was thinking propane might add the power I lost with WVO but also help it crank if I forget.
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  #14  
Old 11-29-2007, 10:25 AM
archangel archangel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndysFords
Does anyone know about putting propane on a non-turbocharged engine? Will it work? I run Waste Veggie oil and sometimes if I forget to swap back to diesel I have to spray ether in my truck to get it to crank. I was thinking propane might add the power I lost with WVO but also help it crank if I forget.
JUST DON'T FORGET TO SWITCH BACK!
Running cold (AKA thicker) WVO could shear your pump drive shaft!

And the Ether will DESTROY YOUR ENGINE!

The piston will be coming up and the ether will detonate when it starts to get compressed around the glow plug long before the piston gets to top dead center and you could bust a rod, crack a piston or even break the crank shaft!
And just because you might have been lucky so far, (like none of your glow plugs are working) does not prove it's a good idea.

And just how does the ether heat the fuel in the injection pump , injectors fuel lines and tank as it has to be warmed enough to flow through the whole system, right?
That is unless you are running the engine on Ether for a long enough time to get the whole engine to operating temp which is a real bad idea!

Propane is cheaper and less destructive to aid in starting!

And if the engine "wont crank" its not a fuel issue, it's either a weak battery/starter or an electrical issue as even if the engine had the wrong fuel or even no fuel in it at all, it should still crank over.

You need to look at the battery, starter to get it cranking normal and seriously check the glow plugs and related components and their wiring and get that thing back to normal.

If you lack the ability to remember to "SWITCH BACK" there are systems out there that will keep the engine running after you turn the key off and switch it back to the starter fuel for you, then it will shut it off after running long enough for the correct fuel to be in the system.

Then you will not have to remember a thing--------well, that is except for adding the correct fuels to the correct tanks!
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Had to sell the Gray 1991 F250 standard cab, 7.3, E4OD, 3.55:1, stock wheels and tires.
It had a verified 19 mpg city taking off slow as hell then shutting it down at red lights, and with the radiator grill blocked flush, no bed cover, "drag shoot" mirrors still on I got 24 mpg at 50 to 55 mph on the freeway empty!

Last edited by archangel; 11-29-2007 at 10:33 AM.
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  #15  
Old 11-29-2007, 12:48 PM
archangel archangel is offline
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Also there is the Turbo Timer
ATS also carries turbo timers which offer the convience of jumping out of your truck quickly once at your desination. Once you remove your key and leave the truck the timer will allow the truck to run for a preset time that you chose in order to cool down the turbo.

No doubt a sign on the wall in front of where you park telling you to switch the fuel selector lever and the turbo timer will keep it idling long enough for your fuel to switch.

Or make a switch that will click over to the starter fuel when the key is off but the engine still has power.
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Had to sell the Gray 1991 F250 standard cab, 7.3, E4OD, 3.55:1, stock wheels and tires.
It had a verified 19 mpg city taking off slow as hell then shutting it down at red lights, and with the radiator grill blocked flush, no bed cover, "drag shoot" mirrors still on I got 24 mpg at 50 to 55 mph on the freeway empty!
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:48 PM
 
 
 
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