04 EB Expedition power window problem FIXED

[H20ENG]

Hi Folks,
I have been on this forum a few times over the years and it really helped me get to the bottom of some issues.

I looked all around on here for info on the power window gremlins. We had issues with both drivers and passengers windows not going up. (They go down fine, go figure.) Everybody keeps saying its the motor, or a relay.

So I pulled the door panel and jumped 12V + and - to the window motor. Works fine. So I then pulled the window switch "module". Dont you love how you now have to buy a $200 part instead of 1 switch?

With my meter, I could not get contact between the drivers side up switch (proccess of elimination told me which pins were which) The module has a million one way clips holding it all together. I figure, its already not working, if I break it what the hell.

A couple little screwdrivers, cuss words, and a cut later & I have it apart!
Let me just tell everyone that suggested a bad relay that there is NO relay for the window motors (in my truck anyway). The full current goes through the switches.

My switch contacts were burnt and slightly pitted. The "UP" contacts were worse because there is more load (current) going through those contacts. It now makes sense that the issue was when trying to roll up the windows.

So I removed the rockers, then the contact arms and cleaned and dressed the contacts. A shot of contact cleaner (dont wash the grease off the rocker slides) and it looked pretty good. Tested it and the drivers door was still intermittent. A quick bend of the arm with the needlenose and it was good as new.

Reassembled and it works like a champ. Sorry I didnt take pics, I was pressed for time, and leaving the windows down this time of year is a bad idea.

If anyone needs more info feel free to let me know.
Hope this saves someone some frustration or a few bucks,
Chris

[Frat-man-du]

Good to know! Thanks.

[roboteacher]

Excellent job.

This is what I mean. We need a DIY section for us to all post these type of fixes.

[cclarkF800]

Thanks for the tip. I had the same problem on my 2003 Expedition. I followed your instructions and I think I now have the problem fixed - at least temporarily - the window is up for now. However, somewhere in the process, I managed to mess up the passenger side window. My contact on driver's side up end was VERY pitted. I suspect the problem will return and since I messed up the passenger side anyway I guess I will have to purchase the whole unit. Any ideal how much it costs?

[H20ENG]

Glad you were able to get it working!

I never checked the cost since I was able to repair it. I used a small contact file and cleaned up the contacts. A very thin nail file will work too, (fits right in the top drawer of the toolbox next to my compact makeup mirror, LOL Cant pass up free tools )

I also bent the contact arm slightly to give a better contact. The problem with the switch is that it does not cam over, or snap the contacts together or apart. The first thing I noticed is that the switch did not "click" like the rear switches. The little arm gets worn and it will not make or break the contact fast enough to prevent arcing, thus causing the burning. By bending it slightly, I regained some of the snap action, but I still try to quickly press the button. This will make it last longer.

This is a poor design, IMO (only 38K miles on the truck). But I can see that it would take 8 relays to get rid of the all mechanical setup.

Now since I did this though, my radio is dead. I used a scrapped cellphone charger in the lighter to power the window motors for testing, but did NOT blow the fuse. I can't figure it out! It will load and eject CDs, I can use the "menu" functions, but it will not come on or play. I need to pull it and have a look at the Molex or inside the case.

[H20ENG]

Oh, and the passenger contacts were almost as bad. That may be your problem.

[berry1234]

Deoxit works wonders on contacts like this.

[FTE Herman]

Thanks Chris. Once again, direct experience rules!

[H20ENG]

Well the problem has returned, so I guess its time for a new switch module.

[eallanboggs]

These power windows develop a lot of torque(current/amperage). Why would Ford not use relays to prevent this problem. Switch contact are not meant to handle this type of curent. That's what relays are for.

[alloro]

So what is the difference between switch contacts rated at 30 amps and relay contacts rated at 30 amps?

[H20ENG]

The contacts are very small, maybe 1/16th inch dia. I would not guess them to be rated at 30A.

I think the biggest issue is the contacts do not snap open or closed like a relay. There is some mechanical snap, but I noticed mine was worn and did not snap closed anymore. I bent the tab a little to restore some of it, but it is now shot.

It would take 8 relays to accomplish what this "module" does. I have had plenty of other vehicles that the switches have lasted 100K plus.

[eallanboggs]

In theory if both sets of contacts are rated at 30amps there is no difference. Under normal circumstances you don't find switches being used to operate motor(power window) circuits. That's where you usually find relays in use and it makes sense that they be used there. I don't know why Ford would design a motor circuit to be operated by their vehicle owners through the use of a rocker switch. There are some circuit that nearly always find relays being used to control them in automotive applications such as wiper motor, A/C compressor clutch and power window motors. There may be more examples. I have to agree with H20ENG saying he doesn't believe the switch contacts are rated at 30amps. The more I work on the Expy and Explorer I come to the conclusion that some items are designed to work until the warranty expires. In many cases some items don't even last that long. This isn't done by accident. The EGR system using DPFE is a good example of this. If used long enough it inherently has to fail. I don't have a schematic in front of me, but if more than one window uses the same power source(12Vdc) and two or more people open or close their windows at the same time(which does on occasion happen) the current will excede 30amps. If you have ever held one of these power window motors in your hand for inspection you know first hand they pack a lot of torque and torque means high current draw. It's no wonder these power window switch contacts fail. Relays definately should have been employed here.