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Old 11-12-2007, 01:21 PM
Dino@his Dad's Dino@his Dad's is offline
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Cool ethanol subsidy scam- do you know who benefits ?

Guys much has been written about the ethanol subsidy. Do most folks realize who is benefiting from that ? It frustrates me greatly that there are people who believe ethanol is only competitive because it is subsidized. Lets look at some numbers from mid october. If gasoline is 2 $ per gallon wholesale at the rack, then it costs 2K to buy a thousand gallons of gas. Now if we blend E10 instead, it will cost 1800 $ for 900 gallons of gasoline, and 150$ ( 1.50 $ per gallon ) for 100 gallons of ethanol, making the price 1950 for our 1000 gallons of E10, but then subtract the 51 cent per gallon tax credit and you are at 1900 dollars for the 1000 gallons. So the oil indutry pockets an extra 100$ for every 1000 gallons of E10 they sell instead of regular unleaded gasoline. Is it any wonder that they don't mind selling E10 ? For the folks who would rather not use ethanol, have you noticed how difficult it is to find gasoline without ethanol added ? Knowing what we do about how the subsidy works, is that any surprise ? For those of us who DO want ethanol, in 85% strength, the prices are even more infuriating. There seeems to be, in my locale at least, a constant 30 cent differance between the price of regular (E10 ) and E85. Knowing that there is the 50 cent per gallon tax credit on ethanol, and knowing that the rack price is 50 cents cheaper, why isn't the price of E85 averaging a buck cheaper per gallon than gasoline ? In my area, the only stations selling E85 are owned by oil companies. Oil prices are spiking currantly, but there is lots of ethanol around, yet the price of E85 exactly tracks gasoline's price, minus thirty cents, no matter what. Must be nice for you guys who are close to a farmer owned filling station. I have seen Wisconsin and Minnesota prices at 1.99-2.50 for E85. DinosaurFan, @ work on lunch
There. Thats my rant for the day. I feel better now
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Old 11-12-2007, 05:04 PM
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You're just now figuring this out? I'm sure it's been covered in other threads here. I belive I've posted very similar information.
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Old 11-12-2007, 08:11 PM
aurgathor aurgathor is offline
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But at least realizing that ethanol subsidies are a scam is a sign of a real progress...
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Old 11-12-2007, 09:19 PM
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Thumbs down ethanol subsidies

yeah, I knew this already, I have read posts on it and even posted on myself. But as I am watching the price climb up to 3.00 per gallon as gasoline climbs to 3.31 , I am feeling the outrage anew. DF, on work's old 'puter
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:50 PM
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I have been using E85 in the wife's 2000 Ford Ranger. The most I have paid is $2.49 while unleaded has been $3.19. The price went down to $2.99 today for unleaded so I am waiting to see what E85 will be.
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Old 11-23-2007, 06:08 PM
TIREMANJOE TIREMANJOE is offline
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How About This. Gasoline Is $3.00 Per Gallon. E-85 Is $3.00 Per Gallon.
E-85 Reduces Mpg By 30% (check Your Manual). If Truck Gets 20mpg On Gas, It Gets 14mpg On E-85. Gas Cost Per Mile Is $.15/mile While E-85 Cost Is $.2143/mile. Cng Cost 90.9 Per Gas Gallon Equivalent. Cng Cost Per Mile Is $.455/mile. Did I Mention That Our Cng Prices Are Adjusted In October, So This Means We Will Have To Pay 90.9 Cent For A Whole Year!
Utah Just Lowered Their Price To A Whopping 63.9 Per Gge(gas Gallon Equivalent)
Also, The Big Government "teat" On Ethanol Made The Price Of Corn Go Through The Roof. So, Thanks To The E-85 Croud, We Now Get To Pay 4.00 For Milk. Pork, Beef, And Dairy, Along With Everything Else That Uses Corn, Is Increasing In Price Daily. If It Were Not Subsidized By Uncle Sam, Nobody Would Make The E-85. If It Weren't For C.a.f.e. Standards Credits, No Auto Manufacturer Would Produce A Single E-85 Vehicle. (that's Why Gm Shows A "flexfuel" Suburban Gets Over 30mpg(with The Credits Applied).
This Ain't No Oil Company Problem. This Is The Problem Caused By Subsidy Greedy Epa Nuts Looking For A Way To Bilk Millions From Taxpayers.
You Guys Can Debate E-85 Till The Overpriced Cows Come Home.
I'll Take My 90% Reduced Emmisions, Already Available Technology Cng
F-150. You Know, The One That Gets 18mpg Running On Price Controlled Compressed Natural Gas. Let's Put $10.00 In The Tank And See Who Pollutes More And Doesn't Go Very Far.
Tmj
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Old 11-24-2007, 08:25 AM
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Did you make a typo on that post? The cost per mile for CNG that you listed is double that of E-85.
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Old 11-24-2007, 11:23 AM
TIREMANJOE TIREMANJOE is offline
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Correction On Cng Cost/mile

THAT'S HOW UPSET E-85 MAKES ME. I CAN'T EVEN THINK STRAIGHT.
THE COST FOR CNG HERE IS $.0455/MILE. NOT .455/MILE.
THANKS FOR BRINGING THAT TO MY ATTENTION.
TMJ

Last edited by IB Tim; 01-21-2008 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 11-25-2007, 04:09 PM
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We need to push for the government to require the utilization of the oil shale in colorado. We have more oil locked up in there then the middle east!! We will become
the new middle east if we start utilizing it now. Of course then those countries will
have to rely on China as their biggest consumer and I am sure the companies who
have stakes in those oil fields do not want to lose the US as a customer so there
are probably some shady deals going on in the government to keep the development
of the shale fields. And NO it is not a big environmental problem, They can pump down
CO2 and it turns the shale to liquid so it can be pumped out instead of having to be
strip mined. If everyone who reads this fires off a email demanding the shale gets
developed and tells their family and friends do the same, Maybe they will get on the
ball and the day will come again of $1.00 a gallon gas!! Hey I can wish for it!!
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Old 11-26-2007, 06:15 AM
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e-85 is a about a buck cheaper here then regular gas. its not the corn that made your milk go to 4 bucks a gal,its the transpertation cost of geting it from the farm to the milk plant and then back to the store at 3.59 a gal for desiel prices have to go up on every thing else. im getin .50 cents more per mile just to cover fuel cost. also look how much of our corn is goin over seas to feed other folks .it'll scare ya
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Last edited by wizzard351; 11-26-2007 at 06:21 AM.
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Old 01-01-2008, 10:32 AM
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Amen wizzard351!!! I live in the corn belt and e85 is cheap here-about $2.37 and diesel is about $3.35-food prices going up due to fuel, fertilizer (which is made from fossil fuels), new equipment costs due to high steel costs ect...And people are whining about government subsidies of .50 a gallon-do we want to pay the farmers for not utilizing thier land like the PIK (payment in kind) program or put it to use for reducing our oil use.
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Old 01-01-2008, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Shadow
I live in the corn belt
That explains it.
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Old 01-19-2008, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aurgathor
That explains it.
Explains what?
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIREMANJOE
How About This. Gasoline Is $3.00 Per Gallon. E-85 Is $3.00 Per Gallon.
E-85 Reduces Mpg By 30% (check Your Manual). If Truck Gets 20mpg On Gas, It Gets 14mpg On E-85. Gas Cost Per Mile Is $.15/mile While E-85 Cost Is $.2143/mile. Cng Cost 90.9 Per Gas Gallon Equivalent. Cng Cost Per Mile Is $.455/mile. Did I Mention That Our Cng Prices Are Adjusted In October, So This Means We Will Have To Pay 90.9 Cent For A Whole Year!
Utah Just Lowered Their Price To A Whopping 63.9 Per Gge(gas Gallon Equivalent)
Also, The Big Government "teat" On Ethanol Made The Price Of Corn Go Through The Roof. So, Thanks To The E-85 Croud, We Now Get To Pay 4.00 For Milk. Pork, Beef, And Dairy, Along With Everything Else That Uses Corn, Is Increasing In Price Daily. If It Were Not Subsidized By Uncle Sam, Nobody Would Make The E-85. If It Weren't For C.a.f.e. Standards Credits, No Auto Manufacturer Would Produce A Single E-85 Vehicle. (that's Why Gm Shows A "flexfuel" Suburban Gets Over 30mpg(with The Credits Applied).
This Ain't No Oil Company Problem. This Is The Problem Caused By Subsidy Greedy Epa Nuts Looking For A Way To Bilk Millions From Taxpayers.
You Guys Can Debate E-85 Till The Overpriced Cows Come Home.
I'll Take My 90% Reduced Emmisions, Already Available Technology Cng
F-150. You Know, The One That Gets 18mpg Running On Price Controlled Compressed Natural Gas. Let's Put $10.00 In The Tank And See Who Pollutes More And Doesn't Go Very Far.
Tmj
Well said.
Back when I was in college (96-99), I reseached alternative fuels, and when my research paper was published in 1997, CNG was the overwhelmingly best choice for the replacement of gasoline...
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:43 PM
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since E85 is WHITE LIGHTNING moonshine.If you live near a stream you could make your own cheap
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:43 PM
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