Ford CC Cummins swap

[jnordby]

Nope - those boxed up frames on the front of these Fords are huge overkill. I could pick up and walk around with the 1997 Dodge boxed frame/crossmember that was cut off from the cab forward. No way I could do that with the old Ford frame. Being boxed and as thick as the old Ford frame is, and with a boxed and dropped crossmember, there just won't be an issue with a turned up cummins. Granted, the Dodge frame is newer generation/engineered so it can be lighter, but the gauge difference of the steel is like 2x between them. If you turn yours into a tow vehicle, sled puller, or snow plow, you can always reinforce it even more for insurance - but I bet it will not require it. I have 3K pretty easy miles on my conversion, so not really much useful data there, but I've not heard of any of the ~dozen conversions that dropped this frame piece to have any issue at all. I tried to air any whoops's or lessons learned on my project as they happened, and I will report on the frame if it gives, but I doubt it will ever budge. jon.

[cant remember]

Originally Posted by mikeismadness

If i remember right a c6 will work on those motors

yes but i am trying for a super fuel milage truck. that i can run veg oil on. i am going to look at a 97 dodge tomarrow that sounds promising.

[Forge]

Is there a write up anywhere on the crossmember drop? I'd also like to hear exactly how you mod'd the clutch linkage.

[jnordby]

For most of my photos and writeups, see my tdr thread, and see the old readers rigs gallery, just below my name in posts on that thread.

The crossmember specific stuff:
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/u...=17951&width=0
All I would add to that is use a comalong between the shock towers once you cut that crossmember - the frame rails will "sproing" apart and give you a heart attack wondering if you will ever get it lined back up. This picture gives you the dimensions, the plate I used, and shows the engine clearance - hard to judge how far forward the engine is due to the photo angle, but rest assured the corners of the block are well over the top of that crossmember. Also notice the a/c bracket is cut off, passenger side lower of the cummins block.

The clutch linkage. Well, with an NV4500, it is hydraulic, (I suspect any other hydraulic ZF, etc will be similar) so I removed the old linkage, put in a new slave in the tranny, ran the hydraulic line (comes in a kit if you buy new, but got to a junkyard and get a dakota or gasser old dodge 5spd setup, fits fine!). I mounted the master as shown in the photo, with some plate to reinforce the firewall. Scot did the same location and is where I learned it from. Putting it lower results in a very hard clutch pedal, believe me! Hmmm, the forum codes are not coming up to insert a photo. Go to my gallery, there are two photos of the master install.
http://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gall...136287&width=0

The photo showing the master cyl pushrod is hard to discern at first. Easiest to get under your truck, pull the clutch return spring out, and look straight up at your clutch arm while laying on the floorboard. All I did was cut a piece of an old pedal cluster off and weld it to the stock ford clutch arm that had the return spring on it. The piece that you take off the donor cluster has the "knub" where the eyelet of the master cylinder pushrod goes through. Again, the donor cluster can be an old dakota, or old gasser dodge as a cummins equipped truck. Bet really any old clutch pedal with this "knub" works.
http://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gall...136286&width=0

There is more wording in the gallery. Literally, once you have the parts, this entire section can be done in an hour. Took me 8 - as I did it twice, and relo'd the master cylinder after I realized it took two feet to push that pedal!

jon.

[bloodhound51]

i can say you are going to have one cool truck when your done.
i put a torq flite behind mine some people say they aren't tough enough but i rn just on the brink of 400 horsepower and 783 ft pounds of torq through mine and it hasn't had a bit of trouble just use a good convertor and valve body with whatever auto you may put in. the crossmember drop is a very strong solution for oil pan clearance. i wish i would have went with the second gen cummins so i could have the ease of p7100 pump you can make serious horsepower with that thing. if you have any question i'd be more then happy to help.

P.S. make sure you chain the motor down to the frame on the drivers side if you do any power mods because these things flex trannys bad.

[Forge]

Thanks for all the advice guys, I got a few things to sort out but let me check my notes, I have more questions.

[bloodhound51]

im fighting a charging problem right now
mostly due to me trying to adapt the ford wiring to a chrysler style alternator
thinking about just finding a one wire hookup style alternator so i can forget this wiring garbage.

[jnordby]

bloodhound51 - here is an easy way to use your chrysler alternator. That nippondenso is a good one, and expensive - use it if you can. This is a copy of my post from tdr:


Got my charging system working - with help from some folks on here. Used the alternator (nippondenso) that came with the 1997 cummins engine. Used a regulator from a 1985 Dodge pickup, about $15, Napa part #VR38SB. The V could be a U, hard to tell on the box. Bought a plug to fit the regulator, Napa part #VRC38, about $8.

The regulator was two-wire, the green goes to green on the alternator for the field (if using the stock chrysler wiring harness off the alternator) Green is the small post on the alternator furthest away from the thick power wire post.

The white goes to the white with blue stripe wire for the stock chrysler harness, both are connected to ignition power. The white wire is the small post on the alternator closest to the power terminal on the back of the alternator.

Ground the body of the regulator, and you are good to go.

[greythorn3]

NICE cant wait to see this go togeather!

Ray

[ChaseTruck754]

What did everyone use as a wiring diagram for the cummins? I was going to get a haynes and Chilton's manual for the truck (1991 D250) but wanted to see if there was something better out there?

When I put the supercharged 3.8L in the ranger I went back and forth between the chilton's and haynes for both cars (t-bird and ranger = 4 books) and it worked pretty well. There were a few colors & wires that each book had wrong, but all in all it worked well enough that I'd try it again...

[jimlj]

Here is the wiring for the brain box. This is from my '89, I don't know how long Dodge used this.
DB/WT - KSB solenoid
YL/BK - Grid heater 1 control power
DB - 12 volts from ignition switch run position
OR/BK - Grid heater 2 control power
YL - 12 volts from starter relay
DG/WT - WTS light
TN/BK - WIF sensor power
BK/PK - WIF light
BK - Ground
LB/BK - Air temp sensor power

If I were computer savy enough to post a picture, I have a sketch of the alternater wiring that Jon was describing.

[bloodhound51]

thanks alot that gets me started.
i went so far as to put a pull cable on the pump to kill the engine so my charging problem wouldn't effect my driving (during daylight) if it showed its ugly face.
i aquired a nippondenso alternator(95amp) from a buddy of mine that has the one wire hookup guts installed. and threw it on before i went to work last night but it still didn't charge right i know its got the big wire going to the battery but its got a 3 pronged plug on the back too can't figure out what these are. if it wasn't free i wouldn't bother
but its free,new and mines old and worn out any way so i figured id try and save $350 while i find a solution to my charging problem.

[Forge]

I did a 3g swap on my old 78... I had a bunch of problems with that... IIRC the wire that tells the regulator to start pumping out juice wasn't hooked up right... could that be it?

[bloodhound51]

the man i talked to said the large wire going to the battery would start the charge sequence, but there are 3 prongs on the back that i have no clue what they are there for. then a big screw on terminal for the charge wire going to the battery.
???????

[Forge]

Are the terminals marked?