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  #1  
Old 07-05-2002, 08:25 AM
davidoldfordfan davidoldfordfan is offline
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Marine 427 the good and the Bad

Some of you may notice the large amount of 427 Ford Engines appearing for sale on Ebay.

Here is a little information in case you get interested in buying one of them.

When Ford re-engineered the 427's oiling system, the cost accountants demanded that Ford sell enough of the engines to cover the development cost. Ford did not want to put sideoiler 427's into passenger cars due to warranty issues. They also did not want to put an expensive DE-TUNED race engine in a car and have its performance laughed at.

Ford then entered into an agreement with the Chris Craft boat company to supply them 427's for their large boats.
These engines used the same crossbolt casting as the Sideoiler but Ford skipped the extra machinging process required to make them true sideoilers. These engines used the lowest of performance 352 type heads with a cast iron 4 bbl intake. Most had solid lifters and were rated at 300HP. In most applications, the boats used two of these engines and one of them was a reverse rotation.

Now that these engines are antique vintage things, most of these boat owners are replacing them with new GM marine engines due to the high maintenance that was required and lack of parts!!!

These engines can be in very good condition as the full throttle was only about 3800 rpm, You will never find a 427 in a car that never went above 3800 rpm!!!

These engines can also be a pile of rusted junk if the boat they were in was used in salt water with an open (pumps sea water through the engine to cool it) cooling system.

These engines are true 4.23 inch bore 427's and any 427 head can be used on them. Remember though if you are interested in one of these, the only thing of any value is the block and the heads and intake are boat anchor material. Even the reverse rotation engines can be made normall with a new camshaft.

These engines cannot be turned into side oilers without modifications that would cost more than buying a real side oiler. The telltale sign of a true sideoiler is to look on the drivers side of the block just above the oilpan and crossbolts. Just above the crossbolt head will be a casting boss with 3 small hex head plugs, one above each crossbolt.

If the engine has crossbolts but no plugs and press in freeze plugs it is an early topoiler.

If it has crossbolts, but no plugs and screw in freeze plugs it is a later (most likely marine) topoiler using the sideoiler block casting.

If it has the crossbolts, 3 small hex plugs, and screw in freeze plugs then it is a sideoiler.

Don't be fooled by hype around a sideoiler, the only place that sidoiling does any good would be at LeMans or Daytona and they can't run there anymore.

For all around use and drag racing, the topoiler is just as good.

David

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Old 07-29-2002, 03:24 PM
blu blu is offline
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Marine 427 the good and the Bad

Just saw two of these at a recycling center today 7/29(427's?). A wooden boat was being demolished the two motors came out of it. There headed for the metal scrap pile(motors are). The valve covers have large decals 300 HP. Both have Chris Craft IDs on manifold. Did'nt spend much time looking at the motors since they were huge - parts of the outboard drive are still attached. Is there any way to verify what they are - casting #'s etc? I may be able to measure the stroke using the wire method discussed in the forum elsewhere. I hate to see them end up in the scrap bin if they can still serve a use to someone. The boat the motors came from was on land for a long time (15+years) new property owners hired kids to cut the boat up and truck it to the dump. (The boat was a long wooden cabin crusier.) For a few bucks I can have the motors put in the back of the truck tomorrow -any thoughts?

blu

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Old 07-29-2002, 04:58 PM
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Marine 427 the good and the Bad

i'd say go ahead and get em
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Old 07-29-2002, 08:44 PM
davidoldfordfan davidoldfordfan is offline
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Marine 427 the good and the Bad

If the valve covers say 300HP and are light blue these are 427 engines. All the other stuff you see is the coolant/exhaust systems.

GET THOSE MOTORS!!!!!!!!!

Even if they are rusted junk, the crossbolt sets will bring $100 on Ebay. If you are lucky, the motors may be rebuildable, if they are, the blocks will bring between $500 & $2000 depending on condition and if they have been bored before.

Again, go for them, or let me know where and I will get them.

Good luck

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Old 07-30-2002, 02:59 AM
Scotty1 Scotty1 is offline
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Marine 427 the good and the Bad

Buy those dude up. If you can get them for scrap metal prices buy them NOW! You won't regret it unless you don't go get them.

Scott
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Old 07-30-2002, 09:41 AM
blu blu is offline
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Marine 427 the good and the Bad

Got em! Have two 427's in the truck with whatever marine transmission/out take attached. The old F250 ain't looking so happy out there. Quite a load. (Wont get them off the truck till after work or tomorrow)
The valve cover decals reads 300HP Model 427.
What it looks like -
The motors were dropped to the ground by cutting a "carrying beam" (which is still attached to motor mount) this cracked/knocked a hole in one of the (cast)oil pans, saying this optimistically the internals don't look so bad. For the heck of it I'm going see if I can't find the piece of the pan that was knocked out and weld back in place. The pans like 3/8 thick cast aluminum(?).Make a good part washing sink.
There is severe rust, on the flange of the valve covers. Looks like water ponded up over the years caused rusting from the outside in.
Starter,carb,etc everything is still attached. My wife is not happy about this at all. Any ideas? (Can't get rid of the wife)
Blu
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Old 07-30-2002, 09:57 AM
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Marine 427 the good and the Bad

Idea to make the wife happy: sell them to me :-)I'd love to play with one of those.

Good Luck. You might show her some of those components on E-Bay. She might be impressed with your intelligent purchase.
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Old 07-31-2002, 04:08 AM
Scotty1 Scotty1 is offline
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Marine 427 the good and the Bad

I agree with Gtex show her the going prices for most of that stuff on e-bay and I bet she will change her attitude real quick. If she doesn't let one of em sit for ever just to make her mad. LOL JK

I don't mean to pry (yeah I do) How much did you pay for them? I wish I could find a set of 427's even if they are all rusted up. Would be worht it just to make a real nice high revin' race motor. Man I am thinking about a new build up and i haven't even started on the 390 yet. I wish I had all the money it takes to keep up with my ideas.

COngrates on the 427's.


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  #9  
Old 07-31-2002, 04:28 PM
blu blu is offline
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Marine 427 the good and the Bad

Cost of motors = new ding in truck from motor coming down on bed rail (very fixable), misplaced glove and dropped 5/16 nut. Seriousily, the scrap guys were happy to see the motors get a second chance.
If my wife found out there was value in the motors she'd sell them while I was working, but she does smile when I tell her that theres potentially 400HP x 2 in the back of the truck.(Probably cause I'm smiling - still has not set in how many $1000's it will cost to get one in a truck + the truck ...I should sell them)

Question:
Anyone got a link to a picture of what the side oiler casting looks like?(When its set up to be a side oiler)
These blocks have three freeze plugs with female hex's about 1 inch in diameter pretty much right above the cross bolts. Theres a 4 bolt pattern not centered but around the middle freeze plug. Behind this pattern (moving towards rear of motor) is a stop-****/drain **** located below the freeze plugs centerline.
I'm going to get the Building big block fords book soon. That should help. Theres a Interchangeable Ford Parts book is that could for sourcing components?

Thanks for any info,


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Old 07-31-2002, 09:25 PM
davidoldfordfan davidoldfordfan is offline
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Marine 427 the good and the Bad

If your blocks have the screw in freeze plugs then they are side oiler castings. But, they ARE NOT side oiler engines. On a side oiler casting, there is a small bulge that runs down the left (drivers ) side of the block just above the cross bolts,on a side oiler engine there will be a small hex plug just above the crossbolt. The bulge had an oil passage down it when bored as a side oiler, then each hex plug was where as oil passage was drilled to feed the mains.

Any FE cylinder head can be used on these blocks as they have the 4.23 inch 427 bore. The crank is your basic 390 cast iron crank. The engines used low compression forged pistons and "Good Guy" 427 street rods.

A good hop up would be to put a mild cam in, mill a set of CJ heads to get some more compression, a good intake and you've got 400+ hp

Good Luck
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Old 08-01-2002, 09:26 PM
blu blu is offline
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Marine 427 the good and the Bad

Turns out THEY ARE the side oiler motors. My interpretation of what you described was off. Yep they are plumbed and everything. What are they doing in a Chris Craft? Who cares..one will be in a Ford sooner or later.
Ford Performance - shows a pic and has a write that cleared everything up for me.

Thanks,
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Old 08-01-2002, 10:36 PM
blu blu is offline
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Marine 427 the good and the Bad

david, I just looked at the spec's for both side oiled versus top - and the motors I have show everything referenced in Ford Performance book - making it side oiled - visually as well having the plugs in line with cross bolts but I don't see why? Since the motors that were side oiled were of the race class.... putting the plugs in the machining effort was made on that face(low cost) but they(Ford) did probably did not gun drill the length(costly) I can see them not wanting to go through that machining operation so its like a facade...

So I'm gonna take back there side oiled till I see the inside. Would steel cranks or grooved verify that? I should have them on motor stands tomorrow evening - with no marine hardware.

I'll stop posting until I get to the engine build phase...I'm thinking something that pulls.

Thanks - awesome forum.
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Old 08-01-2002, 11:21 PM
davidoldfordfan davidoldfordfan is offline
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Marine 427 the good and the Bad

If they have the 3 small hex plugs above each crossbolt then they are side oilers.
Some of these made their way into boats

david
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Old 08-02-2002, 02:41 AM
FEina52F1 FEina52F1 is offline
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Marine 427 the good and the Bad

Man you are SOOO lucky

Wanna part with the other block.
I'd really like to ship it down here and wake up my little old truck.

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Old 08-03-2002, 08:24 PM
Ernest02 Ernest02 is offline
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Post Marine 427 the good and the Bad

blu,

Besides a couple of F-150's, I have a 67 GT-500 with a 427 Medium riser side oiler motor. If I can be of help with info on your 427's, let me know. David has already given great info. Good job saving classic Ford 427's.

Ernie
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Old 08-03-2002, 08:24 PM
 
 
 
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