Kenne Bell chip is available for V-10.

[4x4x4x4]

>I have a 44 gallon tank! Even though the V10 likes gas (
>well okay...LOVES gas) and it doesn't stay full for long, it
>doesn't make any sense to me that I would have to wait for
>the tank of 87 to be consumed before I could actually use
>the benefits of the "Flip-Chip" when I refuel with 91.
>
>Imagine running into a situation where the extra 30-40HP
>would be wanted (say...racin' a soccer-mom in a Suburban
>8.1L) and you couldn't do anything about cause you happen to
>running on "economy mode" with a tank full of 87.


You make a very good argument for the old dual tank setup that is found on the previous generation of F-250 and F-350 trucks.

[ken04]

After talking with Kenne Bell extensively, I understand that there is no additional charge for 'custom' programming. You send em your stock computer code and $299, and you get back the 'Switch Chip' with the on/off switch. Personally I can't see any reason NOT to buy the KB chip. It has all the advantages, with none of the disadvantages. It's available whenever you want it, it's custom programmed for YOUR vehicle. The company has a long history w/Fords and Ford performance. It has a great guarantee. It's only $299 as opposed to $400 for the 'Flip chip'. You can turn it off and run regular gas. You don't need to worry about the adverse affects of running a chip all the time. I can not find one negative with the Kenne Bell chip, can you ? Ken

[NoMo]

If it comes with a money-back guarantee, I say go for it! Just be sure to let us know how it works.

[HiTech]

Is there a reprogramming charge? Say you start with their normal program and pay your money. Then you get headers. How much to get new tables burned? Just the price of shipping back & forth?

I've also seen LOTS of changes to the tables for a given engine code over time. This was with Superchips in maybe the '97 time frame when the EEC-V was new (I was thinking I had the EEC-IV on the SHO, but that was probably my '89, the V-8 SHO was the first car with the EEC-V I think - same processor we run on the V-10s, though the SHO chip code only had settings for 8,6 and 4cyl engines built in then. It was also encrypted so you could not just reverse compile it).

If they get better settings for your engine and code, are they free to you?

Lastly, ask them if they use a flip chip, or truely disable the add on chip in some way and run off the actual internal code in the ECU. Always seemed there should be a way to do that.

-Jim

[ken04]

Great questions and I'm glad you asked them as I never would have thought to ask, until later when it was too late. Thank you for the heads up. I will find all this out and get back, til then, Ken

[ken04]

Ken,

Here's the answers you asked for:

Jim-"Is there a reprogramming charge? Say you start with their normal program and pay your money. Then you get headers. How much to get new tables burned? Just the price of shipping back & forth?

KB-Yes, this is a service and the charge would be $149 plus shipping for any recalibration work. However, we do not tell customers they need reprogramming for headers because the only thing they do is cause leaks and severe driveability problems (this cannot be fixed with any chip), it is VERY rare that they create horsepower (this is almost always true with headers) therefore there is no need to "recalibrate" for them.

Jim-I've also seen LOTS of changes to the tables for a given engine code over time. This was with Superchips in maybe the '97 time frame when the EEC-V was new (I was thinking I had the EEC-IV on the SHO, but that was probably my '89, the V-8 SHO was the first car with the EEC-V I think - same processor we run on the V-10s, though the SHO chip code only had settings for 8,6 and 4cyl engines built in then. It was also encrypted so you could not just reverse compile it).

KB-Our chips are also encrypted to protect the work we do.
If they get better settings for your engine and code, are they free to you?

KB-All our work is done to the chip based on real world street, track, dyno tests (at our facility), and years of experience. The changes we make to the chip are based on the changes we have already tested. If a new year code comes out, we must locate all the addresses and put the changes into the new codes., but you cannot put a new year's code into an old EEC in 90% of the cases.

Jim-Lastly, ask them if they use a flip chip, or truly disable the add on chip in some way and run off the actual internal code in the ECU. Always seemed there should be a way to do that. "

KB-We use our Trademark protected proprietary "Switch Chip". The exact base code (from each specific EEC) is held in one memory bank of the chip for the "Low Octane" mode. This mode effectively "disables" the chip back to stock. Activating the switch, changes to another location in memory where all the performance changes are made.

[ken04]

KB-Our chips are also encrypted to protect the work we do.

Jim-If they get better settings for your engine and code, are they free to you?

KB-All our work is done to the chip based on real world street, track, dyno tests (at our facility), and years of experience. The changes we make to the chip are based on the changes we have already tested. If a new year code comes out, we must locate all the addresses and put the changes into the new codes., but you cannot put a new year's code into an old EEC in 90% of the cases

[NoMo]

Sounds just like the Superchip.

An aside: I sure don't buy the KB theory on headers. Having installed them on my truck, I can most definitely say that power is UP, there are no leaks, and I have not yet had to re-tightened a bolt.

[HiTech]

At least you got detailed answers! Sounds a lot like superchips.

I have suspicions about headers too. On some cars it is difficult to beat factory headers, but sounds like a lot of folks have with V-10s. Also, I have seen tuned chips work wonders with headers - headers (good ones) scavenge exhaust but also air/fuel mix on the part of the stroke where the intake and exhaust valves overlap. They do it differently at different RPMs depending on tune. You need to change the whole fuel map to adjust for this.

As for the other, they have made their own flip chip, but they sell it for less.

But a lot of places it can be hard to get straight answers at all. The price is attractive if they have a real money back guarantee.

OTOH, it seems like some of the folks who run this board know a LOT about the V-10...

-Jim

[NoMo]

Sure wish Ken would hurry up and order it so we can find out how well it works.

[FTE Ken]

Here's my take on it....

For the average person a Superchips flip chip is not a good buy, specifally because of the need to run the tank down to empty between changing the setting to make it economically sound. Add in the factor that you usually gain a little mileage with the chip so your fuel costs stay about the same with 87 or 91-93 octane.

The chip cost factor is all going to change once we get the Diablo Delta in our hands (Diablo's national distributor started getting them from Diablo last week and as soon as we get our programming hardware switched out we'll be offering them). With its electronic switch it will only run about $35-$40 more than a standard Diablo chip. For about the same cost of a KB chip, you'll get:

1. The ability to run: stock plus TWO performance programs for a total of three settings.
2. The ability to add an electronic kill switch
3. A single chip that can be coded for 1 bank, 4 bank and EEC-IV code.

As to specific code for your ECU, well, that's something that one bank chip companies like to tout but its basically marketing hype explaining why they don't have 4 bank chips.

Put it this way.... if you have ECU code JBL2 and we send you the Diablo code JBL2DIA-4BANK it IS code specially for JBL2 AND it has the added benefit of being immune to reflashes. The Diablo JBL2 1 bank code and JLB2 4 bank code are exactly the same program, both for your specific ECU. But the 4 bank is the one you want because of the reflash immunity factor.

Also, consider this: some code families have been revised several times by Ford. If your ECU family has 5 revisions, which to you want, the oldest or the newest? With a 4 bank we can give you not only Diablo's performance code but also Ford's latest ECU code revision! There are a few exceptions to wanting the latest code but as a general rule you want the same code.

4 bank chips also lets a chip company concentrate on producing 1 excellant code instead of 10 good codes. It stands to reason that you can put 10 times more effort into 1 code verses 10 codes. Example: with the diesels, Diablo's NVK3-NVK5 codes have some very mature 4 bank codes and we can offer a TON of options such as softer shifts, firmer shifts, really hard shifts, different TC settings, different shift points, codes for very heavy towing, altitude code, no shift modifications, etc.

If you want a 1 bank code by all means let us know and we can supply it but we can take that same code and do a 4 bank (in most cases) so you get the best of both worlds.

[ken04]

Well personally I was a little suspect on the headers part. I have never heard any negatives towards headers other than they are more work keeping them sealed. But I know, deep in my heart, that headers WILL perform better, and produce more HP than stock manifolds.

As far as needing to re-flash the chip for them, that is something I'll leave to the experts, cause I aint one. If I could afford $800 for the Banks headers, I'd have them, period. Every car/truck/van I've ever owned that I've put headers on has gained HP and torque, along with a better exhaust note.

But, that being said. I'm going to buy the Kenne Bell chip and install it in my van. First of all, KB has been around a LONG time. I have followed the KB tuner cars forever, and have always lusted after them. They do Fords, and they do Fords well. Second, Ken Christley is a great guy. Knowledgeable and helpful. I like that in a company. I send him questions, and he's always back within hours with answers. Third, they have a better price, and my money comes hard. And fourth, I like the name.

[FTE Ken]

The tuners working for Diablo have been around since the industry began in the US. And the Superchips tuners have been around longer than anyone, period. KB's price may be better than the Superchips chip, but not better than the Diablo. Lastly, KB doesn't support the continued operation of this site, if that matters to you. :-)

Concerning the headers, yes, a chip should be programmed for them. You'll hear people like Hypertech (who don't provide custom code) say that the oxygen sensors will help the vehicle compensate for the fuel mixture. Well, that's not what needs to be done because the fuel mixture is calibrated for stock. Headers don't change the mixture however they DO effect the exhaust velocity past the exhaust valves. The chip should be reprogrammed to slightly richen the mixture so the exhaust will be slightly cooler. This is the reduce the risk of burning an exhaust valve (its a small risk but it can happen). Hope my explanation makes sense.

[ken04]

It did Ken, and thanks. Like I said in a previous post, I would like to contribute to the sponsors of this site, as I enjoy this site immensely. So I'll do my best to support them, as I hope everyone here will. The headers thing did kinda bug me, as I've never heard anyone say that headers didn't help performance. I'm REALLY skeptical to change on my V-10. It aint like a 302 Ford, that are a dime a dozen around town. We're talking about 5 or 6 thousand dollars, and VERY FEW people who CAN even rebuild one. So I'm really looking at the chip thing hard. Same with headers and air intake systems. The one thing I have done is change to Mobil 1 Super Syn, but then heard that 5W-30W is bad for the V-10 and it needs 5W-20W. I have noticed a decrease in MPG, but have noticed a slight decrease in a barely discernable lifter noise that I had, prior to changing oil. I'm going to go to 5W-20W Royal Purple next time. I also hear that Ford suggests a synthetic gear oil if you tow, which I do. I'm also going to go to Mobil 1 ATF. As I see on the other FTE boards that there's good success with it, and it is Mercon compatible. So maybe unlike some other people, I research the crap out of anything I'm thinking of changing on my beautiful V-10 powered van. I will look into the diablo delta because of you, and this board.

[HiTech]

Tell me what you end up doing - I am considering the electronic fan control and a chip right now. Probably will chew on the options a while. Love to hear what you do.

My chassis manual from ford does say to use synthetic gear lube if towing.

Motorcraft makes a good semisynthetic 5w20 as well.

-Jim