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Old 08-19-2007, 08:58 AM
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FoMoCo H-car sets Bonny class record

Ford Fusion 999 hydrogen fuel cell car set a class speed record of 107mph at Bonneville. Roush helped build. As ya' know, Bonneville proving ground tests are a big deal for getting new cars to market. It publicly confirms expensive, cutting edge lab work and helps get the auto makers' boards of directors & shareholders onboard for making more huge investments to mass produce vehicles designed and built around a fuel cell. (the 30 Focuses are a test.)

Need another way to produce H instead of mainly by petroleum. Now to get a torquey H-motor into a pickem-up truck

Story: http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../70817005/1024

Cockpit Pic: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jalopnik/1137534691/
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Old 08-20-2007, 11:27 AM
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I think you meant to say 207 MPH?

A torquey hydrogen powered truck shouldn't be a big challenge. After all, electric motors have excellent startup torque.

Last edited by 62_Galaxie_500; 08-20-2007 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 08-20-2007, 02:16 PM
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oops yea 207 MPH.

An H-burning high MPG Towing F-truck, what a treat that would be.

Would old terms still fit though

Does a fuel cell "burn" H, or should say electro-chemical transformation. Or whatever goes on in there...

Octane change to E-density...

MPG change to Electrons Per Mile...

The impossibilities are endless, will probably put new English words into the dictionaries.
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Old 08-20-2007, 03:15 PM
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I think the general public, not understanding fuel cells, would probably still refer to it as burning.

We could still say MPG, couldn't we? The hydrogen would be in a tank measured in gallons would it not?

Last edited by 62_Galaxie_500; 08-20-2007 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 08-21-2007, 08:48 AM
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Sure, mpg and burning will still work.

To wean off of oil and coal gasification for generating H we can use
-Wind turbines generating electricity linked eventually to filling stations. Use an electrolyzer to split water into oxygen and hydrogen. Compress and store the hydrogen.

"Fill 'er up!"
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Old 08-21-2007, 01:00 PM
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It would be nice if we could find a better way of storing the hydrogen than compressing it, but heck, I'd just be happy to have a working hydrogen distribution system.
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Old 08-21-2007, 02:46 PM
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Well, it can also be liquified.

And water can store lots of it, too, but getting it out consumes quite a bit of energy, so under usual circumstances, water can not be used, though, I know at least 2 backdoor approaches, but they are not commercially viable at this point for one reason or another.
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Old 08-21-2007, 03:15 PM
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Liquid hydrogen, you say? Hmmm, that would be perfect for my Saturn 5 powered dragster...



(Saturn rockets are probably solid fuel, right? Sheesh! Even my lies are inaccurate...)
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Old 08-21-2007, 03:25 PM
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Nope, Saturn Rockets as well as the space shuttle are hydrogen fueled. One of the reasons you see all that ice falling off during the vintage liftoff films. When they fire off the engines, so much liquid flashes to vapor, a lot of ice forms on the surface of the rocket. That's the reason for the foam that keeps damaging the shuttle. The foam is to insulate the surface of the tank and prevent ice formation. I don't think it's just foam that's hitting the tiles but foam with ice imbedded in it makeing the foam a solid projectile.
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Old 08-21-2007, 04:25 PM
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Fortunately shuttle Endeavour landed safely at Kennedy after it's heat shield was gouged. Foam falling off heavily enough to damage the heat shield must be an incurable problem(?) because it isn't for lack of money or engineering talent...
,

This Fusion H car drive train is a little out of financial reach for me buying it in a pickem-up truck.... A Ballard 770HP Buckeye Bullet 2 motor and 350-400KW fuel cells, mix in some helium and oxygen, add a Ricardo 6-speed borrowed from a GT. cha-ching. A short writeup on it at PM http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog...s/4220281.html
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 76supercab2
Nope, Saturn Rockets as well as the space shuttle are hydrogen fueled.
Yay! I was right

Anyway, back to the Fusion. At 6700 lbs, it's a little on the chunky side, but I bet it has loads of torque! I wonder why they used an inverter coupled to an AC motor? Couldn't they have used a brushless DC motor and tossed the inverter out?
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Old 08-22-2007, 10:40 AM
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You're right, Hydrogen is its powerhouse, the fall-away solid boosters on the sides are for a little more oomph at blastoff. "Oomph" like coffee in the morning.

The motor-type is a good question, had to refresh my memory after flunking EE thirty years ago... a Brushless DC has no startup torque, AC via an inverter is needed for the big starting push. Here's an article mostly on point
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog4/?p=45

Anybody see yet what the Fusion 999 has cost Ford, after ten years of research? Our tax dollar grants helped some, but Ford has a heckuva company investment in it too.

Last edited by RexB; 08-22-2007 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 08-22-2007, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RexB
The motor-type is a good question, had to refresh my memory after flunking EE thirty years ago... a Brushless DC has no startup torque, AC via an inverter is needed for the big starting push. Here's an article mostly on point
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog4/?p=45
Well that explains it. It says brushless DC needs an inverter to start and have permanent magnets, so it makes since to just use the lighter (no magnets=lighter I'm guessing) AC motor.

The link you posted did say that most of the earlier electric hybrids did use brushless DC, but now they use induction AC motors. Interesting.

Last edited by 62_Galaxie_500; 08-22-2007 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 08-22-2007, 03:22 PM
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Didn't the early hybrids, and some still, with the DC motor start off the line with the gas engine?

Those half'nhalf motors are Ok, but I'm waiting for my 400KW H-truck
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Old 08-23-2007, 08:59 AM
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Maybe they did. I don't recall if the article was talking about eary gas/electric hybrids or early fuel cell hybrids.

I'm waiting for Ford to make something like the Tesla roadster. But without the $98,000 base price of course. Maybe call it the "Electric Eel" ???

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Old 08-23-2007, 08:59 AM
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