[updated:LAST EDITED ON 29-Jul-02 AT 12:45 PM (EST)]Does anyone know if Ford puts anti seize on the plug threads at the factory? A friend with a new 2002 SD V-10, told me that it was recommended that he have the plugs carefully removed and reinstalled with this on the threads. Something about if they are left alone until they need to be removed down the road, threads on the engine are often damaged when they are changed. He is hesitant to have it done as he feels if it was necessary, it would be done at the factory. I tend to agree with him, but I know little about it.

Could this be related to the plug blowout problem? Probably not unless there is a common 'thread' to the blow outs in that the plugs that blow have been changed out at some time.

Anyone ever here of this and what do you think?


I actually just found another thread that talks about this issue a bit, so it has come up before. No definite word there though on if Ford uses anti seize at the factory or if there is a threaded sleeve of a different material between the plugs and the engine. Anyone know?

 

The head is aluminum and I bet the plugs are not. The question is whether they use a helicoil or similar inside the hole for the plug.

-Jim
2001 E-450 Superduty

 

>I actually just found another thread that talks about this
>issue a bit, so it has come up before. No definite word
>there though on if Ford uses anti seize at the factory or if
>there is a threaded sleeve of a different material between
>the plugs and the engine. Anyone know?

I have asked this question before also as it seems like this would be the logical thing to do. But I didn't get a definite yes or no cause I think there is no definite answer to this question.

To be truthful this issue scares me to death. I have been tempted quite a few times to pull the dog house from my van and check all the plugs, but A: (and boy doesn't THIS make me feel stupid) I can't seem to find the plugs. I've looked and looked below the valve covers where spark plugs normally reside and can not see plug wires, plugs, nothing. And B: I'm worried that I may disturb something and cause a spark plug blow-out.

I can't see anything that resembles plugs or plugwires looking in the front of the engine via the hood. Crawling under the van and looking up under the valve covers shows nothing either. I haven't actually looked all that hard as I am worried that I may break something when I do find the plugs. The horror stories have got me so wigged out that for now I'm just gonna leave well enough alone.

Ken, 98 E-350 XLT V-10

 

I spark plugs on the V-10 are above the valve covers they look like injectors sticking out of the top of the head and each one has its own little coil on top of it.

 

>I spark plugs on the V-10 are above the valve covers they
>look like injectors sticking out of the top of the head and
>each one has its own little coil on top of it.

Thank you, I kinda guessed that had to be where they were, but since I can't see ANYTHING looking under the hood, I wasn't sure. Appreciate the help, Ken

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 30-Jul-02 AT 04:55 PM (EST)]I would think, you should be very carful
putting "anything"at all on the plug. Like the lug nuts,
if you put anything on them,it would act as a lubracating
agent,and it would be very easy to "over tighten"them. Then
when the engin heats up it would evaporate a certian amount of
what ever you put on it.If you dont break the lug nut or"plug"
putting it on/in, you just might break it taking it off/out.

 

On all alloy heads you need to use anti seize compound. Because the head is non-feris (aluminum) and the plug is also non-feris (stainless) then there are like metals that contact each other. This allows an electrical current to pass butween the mating surfaces and actually welds the joint togther. this is called gaulling.
The problem ford was having from what I can tell is that they overtorqued the plugs and forced the compound out of the thread area. this allowed the gaulling if you remove your plugs make sure you do not over torque them also be carfull of who you let tune up you motor.

 

Do you torque your plugs? If so how much?

Sorry, I have always ben told NEVER put anything at all on a plug.:-X11 If I am wrong, I stand corected.

 

I have ALWAYS used Never-Seize on spark plugs. The copper stuff is a good conductor and allows for easy plug removal later. You have to have a good electrical bond between the plug threads and cylinder head or the plug won't fire, so the current passing through the threads is a given. Threads gauld do to dry assembly. I haven't changed plugs yet, but when I do you can bet I'll use a thread lubricant such as never-seize that is designed for aluminum threads. BTW, the only way to properly torque ANY threaded fastener is with clean, lubricated threads. You want the torque wrench to indicate the applied torque, not the thread friction. I'm sure you've all run across the odd lugnut that had to be wrenched all the way off. If it takes 40 ft-lbs to free run on the threads, how much clamping force are you getting when torqued to 90 ft-lbs? Much less than 50 I guarantee, because the friction is greatly increased as the clamping force is applied. Don't be afraid to lubricate the threads on the wheel lugs. Use never-seize, a dab of grease, or even a drop of oil off the dipstick.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 31-Jul-02 AT 11:11 AM (EST)]>I have ALWAYS used Never-Seize on spark plugs. The copper
>stuff is a good conductor and allows for easy plug removal
>later. You have to have a good electrical bond between the
>plug threads and cylinder head or the plug won't fire, so
>the current passing through the threads is a given. Threads
>gauld do to dry assembly. I haven't changed plugs yet, but
>when I do you can bet I'll use a thread lubricant such as
>never-seize that is designed for aluminum threads. BTW, the
>only way to properly torque ANY threaded fastener is with
>clean, lubricated threads. You want the torque wrench to
>indicate the applied torque, not the thread friction. I'm
>sure you've all run across the odd lugnut that had to be
>wrenched all the way off. If it takes 40 ft-lbs to free run
>on the threads, how much clamping force are you getting when
>torqued to 90 ft-lbs? Much less than 50 I guarantee, because
>the friction is greatly increased as the clamping force is
>applied. Don't be afraid to lubricate the threads on the
>wheel lugs. Use never-seize, a dab of grease, or even a drop
>of oil off the dipstick.
Thanks man, that makes a lot of sense to me, I was just going on what I have ben told by all the "OLD" shade tree mechanic's around here,and I have never thought about it that way. I have done all my own mechanic work all my 50 years of life, engine rebuilds,etc
and have used a torque wrench all my life and never seen it that way

But you can count on me to use a good lubricant
from now on
Thanks a lot
Your friend Gary E K garyekuy(No Email Addresses In Posts!)

All you guy's are Great

 

Damion, I think stainless (steel) is ferrous - i.e. iron
based (they just add a little carbon). The flow of electricity
between dissimilar metals can happen between any two metals I
believe, whether one, both or none have iron. The resulting
deterioration is from the consulption of the metals to generate
the electric current. I may be off but that's how I remember
the effect.

-Jim
2001 E-450 Superduty

 

I work as a machine repair mechanic at a large aircraft manufacturer. Obviously I deal with torquing bolts and nuts daily. I am not claiming to be a "know-it-all", but in my dealings with torquing, (be it from manufacturers or engineers), I have always been told to NEVER use any kind of lubrication on threads. When torques are calculated, they are calculated dry to give an actual clamping pressure. Using any kind of lubrication would cause you to over-torque.

I understand what has been stated about dis-similar metals of the plugs and heads, but I would be very hessitant to use antiseize or any other kind of lubrication. Usually the galling is caused by frequent removal/replacement of the bolt,nut or sparkplug. If the plug seems to be 'welded' in place it would be caused more from the interaction of the different metals combined with the seepage of the gasses from the cylinders causing some corrosion.

I could go into this obvious problem more, but I just want to address the fact that a person should be very sure of their decision if they choose to use any type of lubrication on the plugs.

Again, my words are not the gospel they are just from my experiences.

 

>I work as a machine repair mechanic at a large aircraft
>manufacturer. Obviously I deal with torquing bolts and nuts
>daily. I am not claiming to be a "know-it-all", but in my
>dealings with torquing, (be it from manufacturers or
>engineers), I have always been told to NEVER use any kind of
>lubrication on threads. When torques are calculated, they
>are calculated dry to give an actual clamping pressure.
>Using any kind of lubrication would cause you to
>over-torque.
>
>I understand what has been stated about dis-similar metals
>of the plugs and heads, but I would be very hessitant to use
>antiseize or any other kind of lubrication. Usually the
>galling is caused by frequent removal/replacement of the
>bolt,nut or sparkplug. If the plug seems to be 'welded' in
>place it would be caused more from the interaction of the
>different metals combined with the seepage of the gasses
>from the cylinders causing some corrosion.
>
>I could go into this obvious problem more, but I just want
>to address the fact that a person should be very sure of
>their decision if they choose to use any type of lubrication
>on the plugs.
>
>Again, my words are not the gospel they are just from my
>experiences.


:-X23 Now I am getting realy confused I was told never put any lubricant on any threads, and now we have opened a real can of worms.
To use or not to use THAT IS THE QUESTION!!
What does the Monsta, and NoMO, Think?

 

My experience is oil patch. The aviation industry standards may well differ. I go by ASME PCC-1-2000 (Guidelines for Pressure Boundary Bolted Flange Joint Assembly) Paragraph 7, Lubrication of "Working" Surfaces. Which states:

With one exception, liberally coat all internal and external thread surfaces and nut/washer faces with appropriate lubricant; the exception is: lubricant is not to be applied to these "working" surfaces for the initial tightening of new, coated* bolts/nuts.
a) Ensure that the lubricant is chemically compatible with the bolt/nut/washer materials and the process fluid.
b) Ensure that the lubricant is suitable for the expected service temperatures.
c) While it is recognized that the inherent lubricity of new coated bolts results in less torque being required during the first tightening application to acheive a given level of tension in the bolt the major long-term value of coated bolts is to promote ease of joint disassembly.

* The coating on coated bolts is polyimide/amide and is considered to be the sole source of "working" surface lubrication

I abbreviated the text somewhat to avoid lengthening the post unnecessarily (and I type very slow), but all the pertinent information is there.

This is specifically for flange bolting, but the same principles apply (IMO as a mechanical engineer) to all threaded fasteners. If you can't set the clamping force using bolt tensioners, then you have to rely on torque. The torque values are only applicable if you can factor out thread drag. For my mechanic work, I insist on "clean, lightly lubricated" threads.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 01-Aug-02 AT 04:52 PM (EST)]>My experience is oil patch. The aviation industry standards
>may well differ. I go by ASME PCC-1-2000 (Guidelines for
>Pressure Boundary Bolted Flange Joint Assembly) Paragraph 7,
>Lubrication of "Working" Surfaces. Which states:
>
>With one exception, liberally coat all internal and external
>thread surfaces and nut/washer faces with appropriate
>lubricant; the exception is: lubricant is not to be applied
>to these "working" surfaces for the initial tightening of
>new, coated* bolts/nuts.
>a) Ensure that the lubricant is chemically compatible with
>the bolt/nut/washer materials and the process fluid.
>b) Ensure that the lubricant is suitable for the expected
>service temperatures.
>c) While it is recognized that the inherent lubricity of new
>coated bolts results in less torque being required during
>the first tightening application to acheive a given level of
>tension in the bolt the major long-term value of coated
>bolts is to promote ease of joint disassembly.
>
>* The coating on coated bolts is polyimide/amide and is
>considered to be the sole source of "working" surface
>lubrication
>
>I abbreviated the text somewhat to avoid lengthening the
>post unnecessarily (and I type very slow), but all the
>pertinent information is there.
>
>This is specifically for flange bolting, but the same
>principles apply (IMO as a mechanical engineer) to all
>threaded fasteners. If you can't set the clamping force
>using bolt tensioners, then you have to rely on torque. The
>torque values are only applicable if you can factor out
>thread drag. For my mechanic work, I insist on "clean,
>lightly lubricated" threads.
:-X23 So,,,With all of that, oil on spark plugs, and lug nuts or not?