First, I am newbie to this site and a newbie to owning a big truck per se. I was one of those in the "I am just going to upgrade to the new 6.4" camp, until I started reading this forum (great stuff in here)

Rather than ask the traditional v10 vs 6.4 PSD questions let me try to pose my questions a different way. For the record, I have a 98-F150 4X4 that has been a great truck. I pull about a 4000 lbs trailer.
It does okay but not great. However, its not what I currently do that is the questio, it is what I want to do. That being load a small-mid size camper (say 2500 lbs) and tow a 3500lbs boat behind that. Similar thead to https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...ht-choice.html but not quite as "big".

I have driven a f-350 SC with a 5.4, 6.8, and 6.4 PSD. Only breifly. The 5.4 is a waste of time. The 6.8 did not "impress me" off the line but I am not sure what to expect. Of course, my goal is not to drag race but instead have an excellent truck for towing the above mentioned rig.

I appologize for the many questions, but here goes a bunch of different ones.

1) Since I have done neither, can someone explain to me the "towing experince" of the following two scenarios for both deisel and v10.

a) Say I am going down the road doing 60 mph with a 8000lbs trailer. I need to pass someone. I assume with either I stomp on it and pass them. How should I expect each vehicle to perform.
b) Say I am appraching a significant hill. Not sure of grade, but its not just a bump in the road. I want to maintain my speed up the hill. How should I excpect each vehivle to perform.

2) I realize there are only likely a few options here, but what should I do on a test drive to see the v10 shine? Like a 0-60 test? Like 30-60 test? Or will it only shine under true load?

3) Is the rig I mention about (camper and boat) rig okay with a 4.10 diff. I am not going to be towing 10,000+ lbs trailers so do I really need 4.30 rear end?

4) Assuming a v10, 4.10LS, and a 8,000 lbs trailer, what rmps should I expect as normal to maintain 60 mph on flat terrain. What about when passing or maintaining speed on a hill. (I know many variables but give me a feel).

5) Finally, there may be many arguments for the v10 and the fact the it may be a better value than the PSD. However, being a big truck newbie is there a reason to truly avoid the 6.4 PSD. There are many things discussed like maintence costs and such. But I mean something that will be a shocker show stopper of disappointment with a PSD. The best example I can give is like the 3.73 rear end in the v10. Everyone says get 4.10 or 4.3, you will be happier.

 

Did you read the recent shootout with all the heavy duty gassers and diesels?

http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/2007...shootout1.html

It may help answer your questions, too.

Welcome to FTE!

 

As monsta said, check out the link and most of your questions will be answered.

Checking out a brand new V10 SD may not answer all of your questions due to a programmed 150 or so hour delay in the CPU. Full power from this engine is not available until the engine is really broken in.

As was discussed in the article from the afore mentinoed link, the Dodge 5.7L Hemi, and the Chevy 6L gassers may dust the V10 in the 1/4 mile unloaded. But the 6.8L will walk away from the other gassers with a heavy load, hitting a steep incline. And that's why one buys a truck with a truck engine, to move heavy loads, and do so with aplomb.

And when compared to the 6.4L, they were pert near comparable when hitting the same grade with the same load.

On the other hand, if your hitting high altitudes with maxed heavy loads, the 6.4L will not loose the HP the way the 6.8L may.

Those who own the 6.4L can't say enough good things about it. Those who own the 6.8L can't say enough good things about it either!

Enjoy,
RustyFuryIII

 

I have hauled slide in campers and towed fivers for 30 years. 12 of those years were with diesel powered trucks. Two 7.3 PSDs that I liked a lot and an 04 6.0 that did me a favor by getting me into a V10.
The V10 is an excellent tow vehicle and the 4.10 and 4.30 gears are both fine for what you want to do. I have 4.10s, tow a 12000 pound fiver, combined weight of 20800 and my V10 does the job very well.
The V10 will burn 20 to 30 % more fuel than the diesel but it does it in style.
A luxury car burns more fuel than an economy car. To me, the quiet, good manners of the V10 are pure luxury over a rattling diesel and many professional truck drivers that still have good hearing prefer a gas powered rig for their personal vehicle.
Many diesel buyers are trying to pretend they are professional truck drivers.
Yesterday, I was beside a 6.4 idling and please don't say they are a quiet engine. A quiet diesel , yes, a quiet engine..........no. The V10 is quiet.
Most of the buyers of the new high tech diesels do not want to keep these things past warranty. Check out our forum and see how many satisfied owners of older V10s we have.
If you plan on trading trucks every few years, put on a lot of miles towing in higher altitudes, maybe a diesel makes sense.
The V10 is truly a bargain and will get you into a King Ranch for less than a 6.4 cheapo and that is the one thing I would do different if I could go back in time and re-order my truck. I like this truck so much, I want to keep it for many more years, and I should have ordered the KR option. I love the moon roof and the Lariat is a nice truck but not a KR.
All the best and good luck in what ever you choose.

 

Thanks for the initial feed back. It's this forum that brought the V10 to my attention. I agree with the comments. For me the bottom line for me is the following uncertainy. If for some reason I want to try a 6.4L, my fear is this is the first year for the engine and I am totally new to diesel. When people say "extra problems & certainly extra maintenance" I perhaps don't fully appreciate that.

The logical choice is then the V10, I am just fearful of the 08 6.8L vs my 98 4.6L today will be a shocker in terms of gas. Of course I can due the calculations and all that stuff, but I am still a little fearful. I realize the question is "well, do you want to get a truck to do the job or not"

Bottom line is I am torn between a couple uncertainties. But I think the risks associated with the V10 are less based on all the threads in this forum.

P.S. The link to the pickuptrucks.com site was great!

 

The 6.4L PSD is rumored to be a short production run engine. Should be phased out by 2010...in favor of the FORD designed PSD. The falling out between Navistar and FORD was a result from excessive warranty costs from the 6.0L PSD. Navistar just hasn't been paying there fair share.

Also with the 6.4L PSD...is the all new Regen system for emissions. Will it hold up to years of use...or will it need to be replaced after a mere 100,000 miles. Only time will tell. OBTW: Keep in mind the PCM reflash that had to be done on the very first 6.4L PSD's off the line. Apparently...shooting flames out the tail pipe is not advisable...and the PCM flash was issued. Rather than letting the system get so hot...it simply wants to shut down the engine. Might not be the best when towing on a steep grade, but...???

So...if you are planning on buying a SuperDuty and wanting to keep it many many years, then I would seriously consider whether the 6.4L PSD is the way to go. If it were not for the Nav and FORD issues, then I wouldn't have a serious problem recommending it. But...that is just not the case....


biz

 

I agree.

Ford is in the middle of building a brand new plant down south (Mexico I think) which will be used in part to produce the new Diesel (6.7l) that will replace the 6.4l.

I think its always best to want a minimum of 1-2 years to purchase a vechicle after a complete redesign or major powertrain changes.

For pulling heavy with the V10 I would get the 4:30's.

On my several trips a year to Canada I hitch a 3,000lb boat up, put around 1000 lbs worth of stuff in the bed have 4 people in the truck and still accelerate up the hills on I81 in northern PA at 80mph. Thats with a 2V V10 and 3:73s. On the same trip I got 15mpg on the flats between Syracuse NY and the Canadian border.

I love my V10 and I hope it stays in production for years to come.

 

notice how the V10 pulled the hills a whole lot better then the other gassersile towing.

 

Allow me to ask some an addition question and make some commertary.

Folks, since making this post I have agonized of v10 vs PSD. Again, logic would suggest the V10 for me. What is stopping me? Really, its inexpereince with towing load with either and the fact that (as other have reported) in my area the v10 is really not a common choice. Therefore, hard to find people on the road to ask them. I am trying not to make a mistake (ie get stuck with V10 that cant sell, get stuck with 6.4 that gives me greif long term). Frankly, everything is a bit of a crap shoot.

Regardless, this formum has been awesome.

I will update once I actually buy something.

 

From what I have read, the diesel might be overkill for you. How long do you typically keep vehicles, and how many miles a year? How often do you tow? With the huge tag the new oil burners bring (+6800, versus only +$600 for the V10), it takes a LONG time for them to recoup those initial costs. The weights you have mentioned are within the V10s range.

 

Another thing to consider is fuel type. Not sure where you are and where and how far you travel, the 6.4 PSD must use ULSD. Not all states and truck stops have the fuel, yet.

 

Excellent point.

 

thejat

Some mild history and some interesting facts to help sway you into a BSEG machine:

Go on this forum back to the 2004 Model Year split where FoMoCo was ending the 04 run and starting the 05 run.... a year earlier the 7.3L work horse was orphaned for the 6.0L "new" diesel...(a fatal mistake in my opinion)... up until then the SuperDuty trucks were basically 3 power train options....Base 5.4 V8, option 99Y for $500+/- 2v V10 or the option 99P $2900+/- 7.3L PSD

From the introduction(97~99) to now, the V10 option has basically stayed the same price but has been re-engineered 4 times with significant improvements each time.
The current incarnation is 362 HP from 3 valves (two intake one exhaust), entirely re-engineered exhaust system, variable intake plenum volume, returnless fuel delivery, all priority communications on CAN (Communications Area Network) Increased memory size and speed, more separate computers (injectors now have their own logic and program). In MY 05 FoMoCo also addressed the turning radius issues with solid front axle 4x4s by adapting a new coil sprung front suspension replacing the leaf springs. This resulted in a dramatic improvement in the handling and turning of the large long trucks. This is also the first year for FoMoCo to add the 5R110w TorqShift Auto transmission behind the 3v V10 and this allowed them to significantly increase the towing capacity....

This site and the gas motor section of a popular Ford Diesel site are responsible for hundreds of us to buy into the entirely new 3v V10 SuperDuty with much less anxiety because the V10 was already a solid performer.

Like Wrench and several others here, I am a convert from diesel back to gas for a Tow Rig for a large scale travel trailer and associated camping, fishing, hunting, family vacation hauling needs.

Arguments for the mighty V10 include:

Equal or better performance
Lower buy in costs
Lower maintenance costs
Reliability and long life
Comfort (ride quality and lower noise perspective)

Only two real negatives:
Resale value ( V10 is perceived by most as a HIGH performance racing motor)
High altitude very heavy towing (diesel is turbocharged so is better suited for this application)

I will hasten to add ref the high altitude towing... both Wrench and I have used this machine to drag insane weights up and over the tallest and steepest passes in North America.... The 3v V10 with 4.10 or 4.30 rear gears, stock tire diameters and the TorqShift trans will get the job done! Even at 22,840 GCVW and Loveland pass Colorado at 11,000 feet and 55~65MPH........

 

I only tow every second weekend. I live in Canada, probably want to keep my truck about 6 years and drive 25,000 kms or LESS a year. That is about 15,500 miles a year. I work from home so I dont use it to commute but would use it as a daily driver (ie Home Depot runs etc).

 

From my experience the main advantage of a diesel engine is fuel economy, and most of the '08 6.4 diesel owners post MPG that are no better than my v10 and comparable to most of the v10 MPG post. I get 14 MPG highway and 10.8 MPG local city rural mix (hand calculated).