Hey guys, I was just wondering what kinds of race fuels are being used today, what kind of mixes, what they're composed of, what they're corrosive to, what they cost, etc...
I'm just curious as to what's out there.
I know ethanol and methanol, and that one of those two is very corrosive; what else is there?
-Andrew
f250_64(No Email Addresses In Posts!), same for yahoo messenger

Nothing, and I mean nothing, stirs the soul, saying I'm a bad **** like lettin'em rip with a window shaking, fuel gulpin, carbon monoxide belchin, attention gettin, V-oh my LORD!-8!

 

I don't know what it is made of but Phillips 76 sells High octane racing fuel (104/105 octane I think) from a regular gas pump at Sears Point Raceway in Sonoma CA. This is for the 'Street' cars that have way too much compression for their own good to go racing at the Drags. Not cheap, I think it's on the ordor of $4-$6 per gallon.
Eric


Proud owner of a '73 F-250 4x4 High Boy, 460 V8, NP435, NP205
And a '68 Bronco 289 v8 , NP435 , Dana 20

 

hi Andrew, well i don't know what they are made of but there are a couple of types of race fuels in my area. one is sold thru Texaco and it is like Sunoco's turbo blue, this is a pink colored fuel and is rated at 110 octane and is sold for $3.69 a gallon. and you can go down to the local small airport and you can get avaition fuel this is if i remember right 110 octane also or it's 100 octane and costs $2.75 a gallon. it's been a while since i went out to the airport and bought gas for my truck so i'm not exactly sure on that octane rating, it's one or the other. the 110 octane by Texaco is a great fuel just put $30.00 in my truck last night to drive around on. i mix 9 gallons of that and fill the rest up with 93 octane for some fast running with my 472cu.in.

 

Racing gasoline is just that- gasoline. Fuels are made up of hundreds of different hydrocarbons, for racing fuel the blend is different, you get more of the lighter chain molecules than in street gasoline, so there is more detonation resistance. Some racing gas also has tetraethyl lead in it, this also helps ocatne rating, but was origally there to protect the valve seats. Methanol is frequently used for racing racing but is corrosive to aluminum and some gasket materials. Ethanol makes a better fuel because it doesn't corrode, but Uncle Sam causes us problems because he wants to apply beverage taxes to it- and liquor taxes are far more expensive than motor fuel taxes. If you can get it at the airport, low lead Blue is your best bet. It is low in lead as compared to green or purple av gas, but not to your car. The 100 rating you see on the pump is for airplanes, it is not quite the same as octane rating for cars. Rest assured it is way over 100 as far as your truck engine is concerned. AV gas has some additives in it that an airplane needs to keep from freezing at altitude, but it won't hurt you truck engine. Racing gas in my area is nothing but a rip-off at 3.50 a gallon or more. When I was driving a Mustang that required better octane, I purchased blue AV gas, now 2.75 a gallon, at the airport and then added regular unleaded at the filling station for a 50/50 blend. The car had 11.7 compression and this worked great. After I got tired of paying so much for fuel, I sold the Mustang to a 20 yr old and built a 390 with 8 to 1 that would run on anything cheap. What is the compression on your 292? DF

 

I don't know on my particular engine, but I've been told between 7 and 8. Not too high; It'll run on maverick gas (I know, I know :-() Maverick's the closest to my house, and since I don't have a license/registration, closest is best.

-Andrew
f250_64(No Email Addresses In Posts!), same for yahoo messenger

Nothing, and I mean nothing, stirs the soul, saying I'm a bad **** like lettin'em rip with a window shaking, fuel gulpin, carbon monoxide belchin, attention gettin, V-oh my LORD!-8!

 

Not trying to be a know it all but the BIGGEST misconception on racing fuels/high octane fuels is that it magically makes ANY notor perform better. The bottom line is if your motor runs without detonating or pre-ignition on 87 octane it WILL NOT RUN ANY BETTER ON 92 or higher!!!!In fact, it can slow a motor down!!!

 

hey lvstang, what's going on. i was just curious do you own any high performance engines? well to answer your question, it's not a misconception the fuel is produced for a reason. i would have to agree on one point, that today's cars and trucks can't run on this fuel, but the older engines can benefit from this gas. back about 1990 we had built a 441 cu. inch. 429 ford big block. we went to a dyno and did some pulls experimenting on things from carb. to roller rockers and etc. one of the last things we did was test pulls using 93 octane and then using 110 octane turbo blue and there was a very noticable gain in horsepower and torque. there was the person there that built the engine and me and my brother-in-law. if i can remember right there was a difference in about 15 h.p. now it could have been more but it's been over 10 years ago. i didn't want to say 25 h.p. because everyone would reply saying i'm crazy so i just made a conservative guess best to my knowledge that i remember. now don't read this the wrong way, i'm just saying that i had proof of this test at that time and it does make a big difference. Ray....

 

You did not gain any power JUST by changing fuels unless the motor was running like crap on 93 to begin with. You either changed ignition timing or compression(doubtful on the dyno) or some other "tuning" change.

Let me ask you something. What fuel actually burns faster, ie; more easily combustible, Higher or lower octane fuels???

 

Let me jump in with my 2 cents; I know without changing anything, I get at least 10% better mileage running 93 rather than 87 and...I know that running a higher octane will usually allow you to run more advance (without pinging), giving you more power. I know there is a correlation and I assume that the higher octane is a little harder to light, but gives a bigger explosion.

'82 F150 2WD w/351W (orig 300 I6)
Slik

 

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 29-Jan-01 AT 10:15 PM (EST)[/font][p]>Let me jump in with my
>2 cents; I know without
>changing anything, I get at
>least 10% better mileage running
>93 rather than 87 and...I
>know that running a higher
>octane will usually allow you
>to run more advance (without
>pinging), giving you more power.
> I know there is
>a correlation and I assume
>that the higher octane is
>a little harder to light,
>but gives a bigger explosion.
>
>
>'82 F150 2WD w/351W (orig 300
>I6)
>Slik


You're absolutely correct!! You have to advance the timing to utilize the higher octane fuel. But there is a point of no return. For instance, if your car runs 10 degrees initial and 26 total degrees timing and you run 87 octane you may bump your timing to 15 degrees initial and have pinging, now you can utilize 93 octane. So does this mean you can bump your timing to 20 degrees initial and run 100 octane? Nope!!

If your vehicle runs without pinging at it's nominal total advance(around 30 degrees total, give or take) and it does so with 87 octane fuel, you will NOT see a power increase by JUST raising the octane. And advancing the timing too much will obviously hurt power.

Your statement on the higher octane fuel being more resistent to igniting is correct.

While I question your 10% claim on economy IF you're not running bad on 87 I have to ask what's the difference?

If you get 14 MPG on 93 and "only" 12.6 on 87,(which I still don't agree with) you are supposedly getting 28 miles more with every 20 gallons of fuel. Now that 20 gallons cost you $4.00 more!!! $4.00 should get you at LEAST 3 gallons of 87. 3 gallons more fuel would get you almost 38 miles. A FULL TEN MILES MORE RANGE WITH THE CHEAPER FUEL!!!

People have been wasting money on higher than needed octane fuels for years!!

BTW, I run a supercharged 502 with nearly 700 HP on 93 pump gas. 100 octane would give me no performance increase unless I increase the boost.

Sorry for the drawn out post!!

 

I know there is a break point, but I know even on my pure stock 4 cylinder oval track, I get faster times with 110 and the appropriate advance than I do with 93. Now we are only talking .2 of a second around a 3/8 mile track, but over 25 laps thats 5 seconds..and 5 seconds is a lot...and all this on a low compressiong 8.5/1 engine. And, yes I've heard the same story that you won't get any gain out of the 110, but I see different results. I thought the same thing until I talked to an engineer at Jim Wolf Technologies, and he told me about setting the advance and running the 110. Once again, it is the combination of advance and the power and burn rate of higher octane fuels that is giving me the added punch.

Now, you will also read the advertising on the higher octance gases and how they also burn cleaner and help the pollution and if they burn cleaner, they must also be cleaner in the engine. In other words, I believe there are usually additional additives in the gas. It would really be interesting to hear from a combustion type engineer, or maybe I'll send it into physics class, but you can doubt all you want, but I made some very careful mileage comparisons over 3 months time with both grades of gas and the result was consistent. I believe that, since I have an MSD ignition, and the fact that the higher octane gas gives you a more powerful explosion, that you can underrun your ignition (i.e., literally not getting the biggest bang for your buck) by running the lower octane fuels. Now, using your same numbers (which are very close to my results by the way) and figuring at the pumps today that I'm spending 1.65 for 93 and 1.46 for 87 and I usually fill around 40 gallons at the pump, I get 56 miles further per fill up, at 12.6, that's 4.4444 gallons more of 87 which means it cost me $66 for 40 gallons of 97, and $64.88 for 44.444 gallons of 87. And...I'm doing my part to keep the air a little cleaner, and...I believe it keeps my engine a little cleaner and healthier...all for $1.22.

'82 F150 2WD w/351W (orig 300 I6)
Slik

 

Remember twice now I said that there is no increase from just SWITCHING to a higher octane. If your motor responds to the additional timing and can utilize the higher octane...great. I have to find the actual article, but your comparo on additives is what the oil companies want you to believe!!! Think about all the EPA ramifications if it was true that supreme ran cleaner! It just aint so. If I read your post correctly I think you saved a few bucks staying with the lower octane. There is no impact on the environment because of additional additives in higher octane fuels. In fact if a motor doesn't ignite the complete mixture you're probably adding to the hydrocarbons(unburnt fuel?)

 

Well, yes and no on the additives. Go to any BP station and it is stamped on their pumps and they made a big advertising issue over this the past 3-5 years. I believe Unocal and Exxon advertise the same thing. Hard to tell whether they actually put the additives in. Yeah, it cost me $.61 cents every 20 gallons on my calculations to run 93 as opposed to 87. And...another question, you say if your car is running crappy on 87 then you will gain on running higher octane, if nothing else changes, why does it do that and how?

'82 F150 2WD w/351W (orig 300 I6)
Slik

 

One last word...and I promise I'll drop it. First of all, you can even smell the difference between 87 and 93 which I believe the difference would be in the additives and...if you have the ignition to be able to burn or spark the higher octane gas appropriately and yet you do not ping on the lower octane, my experience is that you are better in the long run burning the higher octane...even with a 19 cents per gallon cost difference. You will mostly find that kind of variability on carburated, non-computerized engines, not on the new EFI computer controlled units. And...generally, I agree that in order to maximize the power from higher octane gas, other components need to be adjusted (timing, compression, breathing, spark power, air/fuel ratio, etc.) to really gain the hp.

'82 F150 2WD w/351W (orig 300 I6)
Slik

 

>Well, yes and no on the
>additives. Go to any
>BP station and it is
>stamped on their pumps and
>they made a big advertising
>issue over this the past
>3-5 years. I believe
>Unocal and Exxon advertise the
>same thing. Hard to
>tell whether they actually put
>the additives in. Yeah,
>it cost me $.61 cents
>every 20 gallons on my
>calculations to run 93 as
>opposed to 87. And...another
>question, you say if your
>car is running crappy on
>87 then you will gain
>on running higher octane, if
>nothing else changes, why does
>it do that and how?
>
>
>'82 F150 2WD w/351W (orig 300
>I6)
>Slik

Running crappy means pinging and detonation. (two different things BTW!) I guarantee you there is just as much "additives" in the low grade as the high grade. The only diff is the anti knock index.