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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2007, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimminau2
Although it really doesn't matter that was supposed to be "bio-crude".
ok sorry have seen it posted as crud by people that just plain don't understand the good points of biodiesel and lump it in with all bio fuels good and bad and claim it's bad. So yes I jumped on you a little bit and for that I appologize.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jam105
This topic has gotten so far off the real subject matter it has become usless.
Really I was thinking my post was exactly on topic that was asked, and if you think that why did you bother to post? just curious as it's not helping to get it on topic and didn't add anything to the conversation either way.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2007, 08:37 PM
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One thing folks have to remember about alt. fuels. Is that we have to be thinking about the future of our kids,grand-kids and their kids. I will do my part to save a gallon for them. Fossle fuel is finite (with an end) and alt fuels are renewable. The engineering is coming along to be able to use the alt fuels. It just take time.
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Old 07-18-2007, 09:03 PM
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i am not fortunate enough to have b5 bio available near me, but if i did i would probably even pay extra for it. it is my understanding that bio lubricates better than reg diesel, burns cleaner and efficiently, and actually increases milage.
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Old 07-19-2007, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rednek01
i am not fortunate enough to have b5 bio available near me, but if i did i would probably even pay extra for it. it is my understanding that bio lubricates better than reg diesel, burns cleaner and efficiently, and actually increases milage.
this may help in your search,www.biotrucker.com/sites/
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:34 AM
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I'm a little confused. If bio is so good for your engine why does ford only allow 5% to keep your warranty?
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:38 AM
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I was reading that you can pour Straight vegetable oil into a diesel engine and run it. As long as the Veg.Oil can be heated before going into the engine, it'll work. Viscosity and Temperature is also an issue. Thin Oil and Warm Temps are pluses.

So can somebody confirm or deny if the 2008 Powerstroke engines heat the fuel before its injected into the engine? Because if this does work, I kid-you-not, I'm going to Sam's Club or Costo and buying Straight vegetable oil in the largest jugs I can find.

Of course, if it fails, I wonder how much it would cost to flush the fuel line and pump out 30/gals of Veg.Oil from my tank? Heheheh
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:41 AM
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Now if there are issue with Straight vegetable oil, what about a 50/50 mix? Can I fill my 30.5/gal tank with 15.25/gal of vegetable oil and 15.25/gal of ULSD?
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbyVA
I was reading that you can pour Straight vegetable oil into a diesel engine and run it. As long as the Veg.Oil can be heated before going into the engine, it'll work. Viscosity and Temperature is also an issue. Thin Oil and Warm Temps are pluses.

So can somebody confirm or deny if the 2008 Powerstroke engines heat the fuel before its injected into the engine? Because if this does work, I kid-you-not, I'm going to Sam's Club or Costo and buying Straight vegetable oil in the largest jugs I can find.

Of course, if it fails, I wonder how much it would cost to flush the fuel line and pump out 30/gals of Veg.Oil from my tank? Heheheh
DO NOT run vegi oil in your stock truck. Running vegi oil requires a special set up to run. Check out the bio/alt fuels forum. DFA, a site sponsor can set you up.
Also, I think the reason Ford only allows 5% bio is because they can't control the quality of the fuel.
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NS F250
DO NOT run vegi oil in your stock truck. Running vegi oil requires a special set up to run. Check out the bio/alt fuels forum. DFA, a site sponsor can set you up.
Also, I think the reason Ford only allows 5% bio is because they can't control the quality of the fuel.


I wonder how much the converstion kit cost. I'll see what I can find out about running straight veg.oil. That would freek'n rock.. No more gas stations, a pit stop at a Costo for some jugs of Veg.Oil would rock. Although I assume my biggest concerns would be when it gets cold outside.
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigredtruckmi
One thing folks have to remember about alt. fuels. Is that we have to be thinking about the future of our kids,grand-kids and their kids. I will do my part to save a gallon for them. Fossle fuel is finite (with an end) and alt fuels are renewable. The engineering is coming along to be able to use the alt fuels. It just take time.
Alt fuels are great, if they are made from waste (vegi oil), but using our food supply to make fuel is just plain dumb. Where are we going to plant all the additional corn (ethanol) and soy beans (bio diesel) to fuel the country. Around here farm land is being cut up for subdivisions every day. What will this do to our food supply? I'm not sure what goes in to making bio, but making ethanol from corn is a waste. It takes more energy to make than you get out of it.
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:41 AM
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I found some guy named Dave who convered a Bus (one of those Chartered Type Buses) to run solely on Veg.Oil. Here is his FAQ.


Dave's Bus Conversion

Veggie Oil Fuel

Frequently Asked Questions


Table Of Contents
  1. Do people really do this?
  2. You can run a diesel engine on vegetable oil?
  3. Do you have to modify the engine?
  4. Seriously, this works??
  5. How much power do you lose?
  6. What about emissions/pollution?
  7. What about engine life?
  8. Won't your exhaust smell like french fries?
  9. Wow - how can I do this to my car?
  10. How difficult was the conversion?
  11. What's your projected cost per mile?
  12. How do you pick up the oil?





1: Do people really do this?
Yes, people do this, and it works.

2: You can run a diesel engine on vegetable oil?
Yes, if it's hot enough (sometimes even if it's not).
There are many ways to accomplish this, my solution is to startup
initially on diesel. When the engine is hot, I use the hot coolant
to warm up the vegetable oil before injecting.

The oil should be at least 160° before injection, though many claim
180° is a better target. The engine stays at 180°, so it's difficult
to warm the oil fully up to 180° without electric heat. I'll start
with just coolant and I'll see what temperatures I can hit.

There's also the argument that the injectors are plenty hot and
will heat the oil past whatever my final temp gauge tells me.

3: Do you have to modify the engine?
No. I just add a second fuel system that is heated by the engine.

4: Seriously, this works??
Yes.

5: How much power do you lose?
None. SVO has about as much energy per gallon as diesel fuel!
In fact, Rudolf Diesel originally invented his engine to work on peanut oil.

Here are some stats on different fuels:

pounds/gal BTU/gal cetan # viscosity
---------- ------- ------- ---------
No. 2 diesel 7.05 140,000 48 3.0 centistokes
100% Biodiesel (B100) 7.3 130,000 55 5.7
Raw vegetable oil 7.5 130,000 35 to 45 40 to 50

The big issue is the viscosity, which we can reduce by heating.

6: What about emissions/pollution?
Running SVO has significantly lower emissions than diesel.

7: What about engine life?
Because vegetable oil maintains it's lubricity properties at
high temperature, engine life can actually be increased.

8: Won't your exhaust smell like french fries?
What do I care? My exhaust is 40 feet behind me, and I'm driving
away from it at 75 mph.

9: Wow - how can I do this to my car?
If it's a diesel, then it's possible. Usually you need to process
the oil at home because it's difficult to carry around the equipment
that I have on my bus. There are many solutions to be found on the web.

10: How difficult was the conversion?
It's actually a massive project for a bus of this size.
I need to be able to dewater and filter fuel on the fly, and I need
to be able to heat and transfer up to 1/4 gallon of fuel per minute.

11: What's your projected cost per mile?
I get about 7.6 mpg whether on SVO or diesel, but that's mostly
irrelevant since the waste oil is free. I have to replace the
filters regularly, about 1000 miles for the dirty filter and 4000
for the clean - these are drop in paper filters that cost about $10,
so I'm hoping to pay about $0.0125 per mile. :-)

Since I can carry 270 gallons of oil (about 1 ton of weight),
I can hypothetically drive my 15 ton bus from Seattle, WA
to Miami, FL for about $42 with only one fillup. Sweet!

12: How do you pick up the oil?
This is pretty variable. Most restaurants get oil in 5 gallon plastic cubes
called "carboys." Many of them dump the oil back into the carboys and then
have them picked up after collecting a few. Getting 15 gallons or so from
each restaurant would mean that I'd need to stop at about 20 places to fill
up, and that's assuming each restaurant gives me oil and has a full set to
dispose of. Fortunately some restaurants have oil collection dumpsters
where they dump a hundred or so gallons before pickup. From these you can
pickup large quantities of oil that's settled most of the water and debris
out. The problem is, many of these dumpsters are actually owned by the
retrieval companies, so the oil is as well, and they're not too interested
in letting people take their business away.
The waste oil gets processed and filter by those companies and sold on a
commodities market. The price today (9/2006) is about $.13/pound (with
oil being about 7.5 pounds/gal). That's about $1/gallon. My hope is to
start buying oil from the processors at $1/gallon, and cutting my fuel
costs by a third. That's like making my 7 mpg act like 21 mpg. On top
of that, the processed fuel is much cleaner, meaning that I don't have
to prefilter or change my filters much. We'll see how that goes.

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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2007, 03:46 PM
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I think I'm going Full Vegetable Oil in my Powerstroke. Looking over the conversion kit from http://www.greasecar.com that costs around $2,500,
I see that you can get a computer control module that will auto switch your
truck from Diesel to Veg.Oil automatically once the temperature of the engine gets the oil warm enough to shoot into the engine.. That solves my Cold Temp. concerns.

Now this is going to ROCK!!!!!


The vehicle is started normally on diesel. When the ignition is turned on the controller will light up and begin to monitor system temperature. When the temperature is right the manager will automatically switch over to vegetable oil for you.

When you are close to your destination simply press the Mode button to select Purge function to clear the vegetable oil from your fuel system. A count-down timer will display the progress of your purge and let you know when it is safe to shut off your car.

"Diesel Safe" means that you have successfully purged and the controller will remain on diesel until the ignition is shut off then restarted for the next drive.















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Old 07-19-2007, 09:31 PM
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Biodiesel is a very general term. That's why ford and other manufacturer's shy away from it. If it is an ASTM quality fuel there should be no problems. Biodiesel contains no sulfur so that won't effect newer emissions, but if your buying a mix like B5 you have to make sure the other 95% is ULSD. I ran B20 in my 02 for about 60,000 miles until there were some availability issues and my MPG difference was less than 2/10's.

I read that Ford actually tested the 6.0 on B20 and determined that biodiesel alone was not enough to meet 2007 emissions requirements. Add that to the fact that injector pump manufacturers and the EPA do not agree on the lubricity requirements for diesel fuel and that means that biodiesel without an additive is the same price or close to dino fuel where an additive is recommended then I think your at least even if not ahead by getting the biodiesel.

As for buying things from China, I'm still not sure how that has anything to do with what you asked.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:40 PM
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I talked to the Grease Car kit makers and they said they've not developed a kit for the 2008 6.4L Powerstroke yet. So it looks like no VeggieFuel for the 08's yet.

I know Ford in some paperwork I have laying around said B5 will be just fine in the new 2008s. And anything higher than that isn't recommended.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:45 PM
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Here is the biodiesel specs for B100 which can be blended to whatever %.
http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/f...ets/BDSpec.PDF
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