Hay Folks....

I've been looking on the Forum for information on Manual transmissions for my 400M but can't seem to locate anything.

I have a 400M with an Automatic transmission ( I think it's a C6 ) in my 60 F-100 and would like to covert it over to a Manual Transmission - I've already found the bellhousing to fit the 400, but don't know which or much about Manual Transmissions for this motor - This is my first attempt at doing this sort of thing - so forgive me if I sound stupid.

A friend of mine has a 5 Speed out of a 87 Stang that I can have - could that be made to fit without major modifications or are there better / easier choices....
remember - first attempt here for this sort of thing.... experience level here is maybe a strong 4 out of 10.

Anyway - I would appreciate any help, suggestions or guideance ....

I setup a gallery of my 60 ground up project for any interested parties out there. I'm currently working on the frame restoration and will be attempting to lower her down a bit... so it'll be a bit untill I get the engine rebuilt and in - rather start looking now then later....


THANKS AGAIN TO EVERYONE,

HODGE

 

Unless you are looking for an overdrive, there were two 4-speeds available on the 400, the Warner T-18 and the New Process 435. These would probably make for an easier swap than a manual transmission of a different application. However, some on the board have converted to later ZF 5-speed and a lot of good information is available for that swap.

Either way, for the swap from auto to manual, you'll still need the clutch pedall assembly and all the clutch linkage to complete the swap.

 

Thanks for the advice..... this is all still a bit Greek to me - Regarding the cluth pedal and linkage...the good thing is, who ever converted the truck to the 400M and Automatic tied the Clutch Pedal back out of site and covered it with carpeting....and tied off the linkage underneth.... Thats one of the reasons I decided to convert it....I loved the truck when I purchased it - but would have liked it to be standard....and WELLA it's all there.

What is the availability of the tranny's you mentioned?

Thanks again for the advice,

Hodge

 

You might start with your local wrecking yards. Also the following site has a national search for used parts:

http://car-part.com

If I'm not mistaken, the New Process is more common in 4x4 applications. However, I'm not that familiar with 4x4s so I could be mistaken. You might also check with local transmission shops and google for one or the other online.

You are fortunate that the pedal and linkage are all there. Much easier swap.

 

The NP435 (New Process) and Borg Warner T18 are pretty common in most junkyards or classifieds though it might take a couple of weeks of watching. Keep in mind the NP435 and T18's are truck transmissions and not very well suited to quick shifting all out 1/4 mile runs or anything. I'm not sure if someone makes an adapter for to mate the Mustang 5 speed to the 400 or not, Advance Adapters would be my best guess though I'll bet the adapter is $400 - $700.

 

You can use the toploader 4speeds out of the cars in the 60's and early70's as you said you have the bellhousing, and theres shouldn't be an issues of bolting it to the toploader, then basiclly if it came behind a 460 you can put it behind a 400, the zf5sp will work, the t19 will work too.

 

This truck will never haul another load again once it's done....and this one isn't going to see any off road use either. Sound like the stang tranny is out - I can do alot with the $400 $700 or so dollars then find/buy adapter to fit it. So I'm thinking it sounds like an older toploader from a car would do the trick better / quickier shifting. I'll call one of the bone yards here in Upstate NY to see what I can find.... A fella at the shop said a T-56 would bolt up nicely as well... would this be a car or truck tranny, forgot to ask him. Another fella at work said I should keep the C-6 in - that adding an older tranny will only put on additional weight.. Is he correct - I thought the manual / toploader type is less weight. The BW T-10 in my Roadrunner is way small
compared to what I pulled out...

One other question, Folk's around here are telling me to scrap the 400M - that the availability of performance parts are scarce - and that the engine was a Smog Hog in it's day- I heard/read that if I set the timing, "straight up" it would run much better - Because in the day - Ford retarded the timing 4 or 6 degrees to assist with the emission regs at the time. Is this true? (all the above).

My friend with the tranny also has a low mileage (40M ) 302 HO that came with the tranny - I think he said it was out of an 87 Stang that he totalled years back. Something about putting a 302 EFI into the 60 Ford seems wrong!

Thanks Much to Firstonraceday, Wick246, Mustange70
Have a GREAT ONE

 

while the 400 can be made into a stout performer, it can get costly. Stock that 400 is putting out 158ish hp, and maybe low to mid 200's for torque. Pretty lousy #'s.

On the other hand, that 5.0 from the mustang is putting out 225 real world horsepower, and around 300 pounds of torque from the getgo, bone stock with no mods.

Now, I come from the 5.0 mustang world, so I'm partial to the motors over the 400's. IMO, the 5.0 would be the better engine all around. You've got the ENTIRE world of 5.0 mustang engine mods at your finger tips, which would allow you to build essentially unlimited hp at a fraction of the cost of that 400. + you've already got a 5 speed trans for it. Those t5's are decent for the street, and have good street gearing (2.95 first for pre 90 trannies and a 3.35 first for 90+ t5's)

Adding HP to that 5.0 is simple too. FYI, the 96-01 explorers came with the gt40/gt40p heads (ford factory performance head) and the gt40 style intake. Simply bolting those on to your 5.0 will get you around 300 flywheel hp for about $200-$400 for the heads, and a little more for the intake.

EFI on an old ford is fantastic. I'm doing a complete resto on a 72 maverick, and it's getting a rebuilt 5.0 from an 80's mustang with gt40 heads, and an efi setup with the gt40 intake, and a tfs 1 roller cam.

If you don't like efi, good news. that 5.0 is the exact same block as the 60's 302's. Simply slap on a carb'd intake and carb of your choice, and a 1985 style roller gear distributor, and you're set to go carb'd.

since you still need a rebuild on that 400, examin all your choices. If that 5.0 is ready to drop in as is without a rebuild, then the money spent on that 400 build could be spent on 5.0 mods instead. My .02

 

Hay V8only,

Thanks for the advice....as I mentioned earlier this is a new venture for me, a ground up rebuid that is. I've spent alot of time and money playing with OEM stuff that came in the cars...but having the options I do with this rebuild is both fantasic and nerve braking.

I started pricing some of the Mods needed to get the 400 up to a performer and your right on the money....it's pricey and the HP still isn't where I would want it to be....

If I were to use the 5.0 as is with the EFI - Do I need to bring along all the Emission Controls with it. I think my friend just has the Engine and Tranny - no wiring harness, computer, etc.... if so, I'm assuming that After Market parts are plentiful.....

I'll need to ponder this one over a bit more, as well as do more research.....

Thanks for your help and support,

Hodge

 

If you're serious about the efi aspect, you'll need the stuff to go with it. Now, I'm not sure what you DO have, however, at a bare minimum you'll need the computer and computer harness from a mustang (87-95) this harness can easily be spliced into your old one on your 60. (I'm still doing my research, but it's not a bad swap)....... the harness and computer is an easy junkyard score. FYI, I'd stick with an 88-93 mass ari setup, maybe 94/95 may be ok too. if you don't want to hit the junkyards, ebay has them all day long.

you should be emissions exempt, so you won't need (unless you want) a smog pump, you wont need the bypass tubing on the back of the heads, if you wanted, you could eliminate the egr, and everything, although I'd keep the egr personally. So what you'll need is the computer and harness, o2 harness, injector harness, etc.

you'll be blown away at how cheap 5.0 accessories and aftermarket stuff is, and how abundant it is. Efi is wonderful. It starts and run sweet every single time.

5.0 efi swaps are COMMON on the 60's mustangs. Wiring and all the tech should be nearly the same for your vehicle. I'd spend some time on the 60's mustang boards searching efi swaps and you should get all the info you need.

My buddy with a maverick did it, and said it was so simple, i'd be crazy not to, and that's why I'm doing my mav.

I feel bad for helping you possibly talk out of a 400 on a 400 board, but in my personal experience, there are a ton of options, and in any case where money is an option, I'd go with whatever makes the bank account happy.

 

The 400 is a great truck engine, but I think you are headed in the right direction looking for something a little more streetable in transmission and mill. EFI 5.0 or dare I say 5.8???? Turbo? Hmmmm.

 

When comparing HP and torque numbers make sure you are comparing using the same measuring systems.

 

every motor from 72 + are on the same systems now. Manufactors all rate the same, and at the flywheel (not the wheels)


just an fyi, so the 400 ratings are accurate as to todays standards

 

Not hardly....

 

its easy to build build power with the 400's, if it works for the cleveland it will probably work work for the 400 (a few things require a few mods), all the valve train (except push rods) can be swapped, pistons (bush the 400 rod, or but tims zero deck flat tops), are plentiful if you know where to look, lots of intakes (you use spacers and there are several intakes around, chi makes a nice one too, as well as weiand and edlebrock, the old offy intakes for the cleveland were nice too) are around, headers from the cleveland can be made to fit depending on clearence, or just make your own (like i did).

The 2v heads on the 400s in my eyes are a better head than the gt40, and have more potential as well, also the 400's will have a flatter tq curve than the 302 with similar hp up and down the powerband, and they can be taken as high as a 302 in the powerband too (if build right, as anything should), but thats just me

btw, the toploader (its not the t10 as thats a BW tranny, similar but not the same) should be lighter than the c6 by a good bit and again if you know where to look they are easy to find, but be prepared to pay for them as they are one stout tranny. I'd stay away from the T5's if you decide on a 400 (adapter will be needed), cause the t5 probably won't hold up all that well to the much torquier 400, i'd stick with the toploader.