Banks Power Pack for V-10

[X_Hemi_Guy]

Mike and others, Sorry I have not responded... I just got back from a weeklong camping outing...traveled 768 miles and NEVER left Indiana!!! Southern Indiana has some pretty good "hills"...NOT 11K' Eisenhower passes but still some pretty windy grades...the 4.30's did NOT disappoint and I was LOADED to the hilts for the 9 days we were gone!...the Ex was about 1" from the overload stops! DOH!!! I tug right at 9000#'s and my Ex was slightly over GVWR at 9100 (including 1250#'s of tongue weight) so I had a GCW of ~17,000#'s and she pulled in OD up most overpass "inclines" and in 3rd when I wanted to hold speed harder...for the most part it is a game of throttle patience if you will with the 4.30's...you can run ANY SPEED YOU WANT to pay the gas bill for! LOL In the 768 miles I "averaged" 8.2mpgs with a high tank of 8.7 and ~280 miles and a low tank of 7.6 of ~210 miles...I drove ~63mph on the interstate and if needed accelerated at will to 70 or more. The grades could be pulled at speed (55) as they were US highways with a low gear of 2nd when I got impatient and a "max" RPM of 3500. With my old 3.73's I KNOW WHAT MIKE IS TALKING ABOUT...see this post I put together last summer after returning from a trip to Mikes neck of the woods... http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/18127992/gotomsg/18169491.cfm#18169491 Scroll to the top...my screen name on RV.net is crappie_fisherman. the 3.73's and V10 CAN be effective...but it takes a LOT of driver input!...I did it with my old 7500# TT...but this new TT weighs more and I wanted more dig...the V10 is TAILOR MADE for 4.30's! To answer some of the questions on gears. I had a local 4x4 speciality shop here in Fort Wayne Indiana do the swap. The owners father-in-law happened to work at the local Dana axle factory for 40 years building axles...seeing as how we have a Dana front axle...seemed like a good fit. Parts cost me ~$1000 with synthetic fluid front and rear, ring and pinions front and rear AND the "install" kits which contain bearings, seals, bushings, etc. He charged me $500 labor TOTAL job front and rear with parts, labor and synth fluid cost $1548...I didn't think that was too bad at all...other shops around wanted $2000. The front axle is a bear...have to drop the steering drag link and some other "stuff" that is in the way... All in all I am VERY pleased with the performance of this machine...as I said I can tow at ANY SPEED I CHOOSE to pay for! 62-63 seems to be a good MPG compromise... Again sorry I haven't responded...just getting back and checking things out...first post I read...had to reply! Let me know if there are any other questions...oh yeah...you do NOT have to re-flash ANYTHING after the gear swap...the speedo pick up is off the ring gear side of the axle...so the speedo as verified by GPS is still spot on. The tranny will "re-learn" the shift points which are MUCH crisper and quicker...I can be in 3rd by 30mph around town...with the 3.73's it always seemed to "hang" for the shift...very crisp with the 4.30's. I had him install a set of Dana ring and pinion front and Visteon/Sterling rear...stuck with OEM...afterall the 4.30's was an available gear on the V10 Ex's. My Ex is a 2005 and sadly no Ex's ever got the 3V V10...but with the 4.30's this is a pulling monster for me. Hope this helps answer some of my questions I left you guys hanging on!...sorry! joe.

[nebmike]

Thanks for the update X-Hemi... I am taking my Ex in first thing tomorrow morning for a set of 4.56's. I just spend far too much time in 2nd gear pulling hills around here, so I'm hoping that I like the gear swap as much as everybody else seems to.

Mike

[Btravelen]

Originally Posted by nebmike

Thanks for the update X-Hemi... I am taking my Ex in first thing tomorrow morning for a set of 4.56's. I just spend far too much time in 2nd gear pulling hills around here, so I'm hoping that I like the gear swap as much as everybody else seems to.

Mike

Did you check to make sure 4.56's will fit in the housing? It's been reported that some 3.73 housing won't fit 4.30's, much less any bigger.

[Monsta]

Hmmm...don't think a different ratio would make the ring gear dimensionally larger...

A 10.5" is a 10.5", right? What am I forgetting?

[X_Hemi_Guy]

Originally Posted by nebmike

Thanks for the update X-Hemi... I am taking my Ex in first thing tomorrow morning for a set of 4.56's. I just spend far too much time in 2nd gear pulling hills around here, so I'm hoping that I like the gear swap as much as everybody else seems to.

Mike

nebmike,

I keep forgetting that you are at altitude...our normally aspirated V10's suffer greatly from the "lack of oxygen" at where you live... The computer tries to keep the fuel/air ratio constant...well go up in altitude where there is less air and the computer cuts back on the fuel...hence LESS POWER. you can count on 2-4% power reduction for each 1000' of elevation.

The TURBO diesel boys have the turbo cramming air into the intake to make up for the lack of air...that keeps the fuel/air ratio somewhat constant so they don't suffer the same fate...non-turbo diesel folks suffer the SAME fate...

Supercharging the V10 is also an option...Whipple makes a bolt on option for the V10 but it costs over $5K just for the parts!!!

Gearing WILL make a BIG difference. Good choice on the 4.56's too...that should help offset your air starved area!

Good luck...let us know how it goes...and make sure the shop is willing to stand behind the install...deeper gears are more "finicky" to get set and not whine...they should NOT make any noise...

joe.

[Btravelen]

Originally Posted by Monsta

Hmmm...don't think a different ratio would make the ring gear dimensionally larger...

A 10.5" is a 10.5", right? What am I forgetting?

Not really sure what the hangup is but I have seen it posted that some 3.73 'pumpkins' don't fit the 4.30's. Maybe someone else will chime in.

[n3qdz]

Wow don't worry about changing gears and all that stuff. I'd be on the phone with Banks!
That is a ton of money you shelled out with little to no noticable change. I'd be pretty pissed. I would have thoes guys fix it for the money you paid and the claims they make "I want the improvements" Ya know they they a multimillion dollar business on overcharging folks for hop up parts don't let them off the hook get your money back or fix the problem!
For me I dumped my gasser for diesel way better MPG and tow's 11k and nothing sounds like it. Besides it's easier to hop them up.

[nebmike]

Originally Posted by n3qdz

Wow don't worry about changing gears and all that stuff. I'd be on the phone with Banks!
That is a ton of money you shelled out with little to no noticable change. I'd be pretty pissed. I would have thoes guys fix it for the money you paid and the claims they make "I want the improvements" Ya know they they a multimillion dollar business on overcharging folks for hop up parts don't let them off the hook get your money back or fix the problem!
For me I dumped my gasser for diesel way better MPG and tow's 11k and nothing sounds like it. Besides it's easier to hop them up.

I've called Banks twice and was basically told too-bad-so-sad each time. They're saying it must be an underlying issue with my truck (but I've everything checked everything that can be checked - and nothing is wrong). I've written them on three separate occasions and have gotten no response from that.

In fact, I just had my 30' TT up in the mountains this past weekend and I'd have to honestly say that it seems as if it had 'more' power in stock configuration compared to now with the Banks parts. I've pulled those hills enough to know where it shifts and what speeds it would hold before I did the install -- and the only two differences is that (#1) my experiences up there were between November and March (i.e., colder months -- compared to 100 degrees this past weekend), and (#2) the Banks system.

My mech didnt get started on the gears today, but they should be going in starting first thing in the a.m.

Mike

[n3qdz]

WOW nebmike, that stinks for them to say "well you bought it were done" IMO is not acceptable. I just can't believe it.
The only thing with changing to taller gears is that your MPG will go thru the floor and the engine will rev higher. And If I remember the MPG is not to good to begin with. You will get the benefits of taller gears but you will just need to at the pump more often. Good luck to ya. Time to wite Gale a letter with your findings. sounds like customer service is not one of their top strenghts.

[Brians97F250Crew]

perhaps you can call the vendor you bought the kit through and work it that way?? Maybe they could work you some kind of warranty or exchange perhaps for another product that would serve you better. Just a thought. I have Banks products and am happy with mine but I got a oil burner. But if I was in your shoes I'd be HOTTTT to say the least.

[nebmike]

Originally Posted by Brians97F250Crew

perhaps you can call the vendor you bought the kit through and work it that way?? Maybe they could work you some kind of warranty or exchange perhaps for another product that would serve you better. Just a thought. I have Banks products and am happy with mine but I got a oil burner. But if I was in your shoes I'd be HOTTTT to say the least.

See, thats the pisser of it... its not an easy intall by any stretch of the imagination and without dropping a bunch more $$ on labor, I'm pretty much stuck with this Banks system.

Mike

[X_Hemi_Guy]

Originally Posted by n3qdz

...
The only thing with changing to taller gears is that your MPG will go thru the floor and the engine will rev higher. And If I remember the MPG is not to good to begin with. You will get the benefits of taller gears but you will just need to at the pump more often. Good luck to ya...

Maybe...

Here's my experiences.

Unloaded I ONLY drive 4 miles each way to work on local roads.

With 3.73's I got 8MPG very consistantly.
With 4.30's I get 9MPG very consistantly.

My theory on WHY I get BETTER mpg's with the 4.30's is that it shifts so quickly now the "average" RPM's in my VERY SHORT commute (less than 50mph the whole way) is lower with the 4.30's so I actually get BETTER mpg's with 4.30's in MY situation...now if I drove highway mileage for any distance...YES mpg's WOULD suffer.

Loaded on the highway

3.73's with a GCW of 15,500#'s average mpg 7.8
4.30's with a GCW of 17,000#'s average mpg 8.5

Theory here even WITH a heavier load and me getting BETTER mpgs is that I can run OD MUCH longer so again my overall RPM's is lower with the 4.30's.

So it isn't a blanket statement that deeper gears give you poorer mpgs...my real life situation says different.

RPM wise here are my observations with the 4R100 trans.

65MPH

OD on (i.e. 4th gear):
3.73's 1800-1900
4.30's 2100-2200

OD off (i.e. 3rd gear):
3.73's 2600-2700
4.30's 3000-3100

For the most part I drive while towing at 62-63mph in OD at ~2100RPM's. With my 3.73's I tended to lock out OD and run in 3rd much more for an RPM of 26-2700...so you can see where the advantage while towing is with the 4.30's...it keeps the V10 in the power band in OD much better.

In my experience get much below 2000RPM and she just falls backwards...there is a little "plateau" in the torque curve from 2000-2600 and then she falls off below 2000 and ramps up above 2600...operating within that plateau keeps you pulling hard...but drop below and she falls hard...that is where you lose most of your mpg's is with the sudden downshifts and high RPM spikes...the 4.30's smooth that out so much more to keep an even keel...

I towed near 7000 miles last year with our old TT and have over 1300 so far this year with the 4.30's...I can tell you how much nicer it is to tow with the 4.30's...night and day even with a heavier and longer TT this year...I will NEVER tow with a V10 and 3.73's again.

joe.

[nebmike]

I'm excited about getting the 4.56's in... and I have to say that the more I read on these forums from people who tow about the same weight, the better I feel about my Ex. Before I got the Ex and the TT, the most I'd towed was 16' bass boat, so it was quite a difference. But somehow in my mind I had figured that with the V-10, "I could tow anything and do it in OD." Not so! :-\ With my high profile 30' TT (at ~8000lbs) running anywhere from 5000ft elevation up to 11,000ft, it just really left a lot to be desired in my mind. To find out that my Ex isnt an oddball just because I can only do 45mph (floored, in first gear, while towing) coming up the west side of Eisenhower tunnel (climbing from ~8500 to ~11,000) on I-76 makes me feel a lot better.

Now that I realize that my expectations may have been artificially high, I think that the benefits I see from switching from 3.73's to 4.56's will probably be enough to satisfy me... for a while. :-)

Now, where did I see that supercharger ad...

:-)
Mike

[Brians97F250Crew]

Yea if I bought a V-10 Ex I believe I'd have to bolt on the whipple for sure.

[X_Hemi_Guy]

Originally Posted by nebmike

Now, where did I see that supercharger add...

:-)
Mike

Ask and you shall receive!!! LOL

http://www.aaxel.com/Merchant2/merch...&Store_Code=AX

Just not so sure the 4R100 and driveline is up to the extra HP/torque?

joe.