You would think that one of the companies would see the giant hole in the market (no half ton pickup with manual transmission and 4x4). Really if any of them sold that truck I'd be at the dealer tomarrow.
You and about 100 other people. The problem is that there is no profit selling to 101 people. The profit is selling to the majority, the 101,000 who don't want a manual. I'm not saying you're wrong, just saying that it doesn't pay for Ford, or any other manufacturer, to engineer, design, and build somethat that such a small percentage of the population want.
You and about 100 other people. The problem is that there is no profit selling to 101 people. The profit is selling to the majority, the 101,000 who don't want a manual. I'm not saying you're wrong, just saying that it doesn't pay for Ford, or any other manufacturer, to engineer, design, and build somethat that such a small percentage of the population want.
There's more demand than you think, the problem is that the manufacturers started making them hard to get a long time ago. As far back as 1989 they would give you the hard sell on automatics and getting a dealer to order you a truck with a manual was like pulling teeth. When I bought my truck (in 1989) I walked out of two dealer showrooms because of the resistance they were giving me, finally at the third I found a salesman who was willing to order me what I wanted. And I do have friends who caved in and bought the autos even though they really wanted manuals, based on what the dealers told them they all believed that manuals were not available anymore.
It is good to see the number of people supporting manual transmissions here in this thread. I to am a die hard manual user. It is nice to know I'm not alone.
Right now I'm in the market to replace my 1990 full sized Bronco (which has a manual tranny) with somthing new. The only option with a manual is the Ford F-250. This is after looking at every truck manufacturer (Ford, Dodge, GM, Toyota, Nissan). Even then the manual option is severly restricted (why do power fold side mirrors or heaed seats require an automac trasmssion?)...
I would try building a Ford or a Dodge with the small V8 and a manual. I know on the Dodge, that once you select the HEMI, it is an automatic only. But, if you select the 4.7L you can get a 6-speed manual. I would buy the smaller V8 to get the manual, then buy some power adders for the engine.
You and about 100 other people. The problem is that there is no profit selling to 101 people. The profit is selling to the majority, the 101,000 who don't want a manual. I'm not saying you're wrong, just saying that it doesn't pay for Ford, or any other manufacturer, to engineer, design, and build somethat that such a small percentage of the population want.
I agree that the majority want automatic so that is where the manufacturers should concentrate. But to make a truck with a manual transmission 98.7% of the truck is the exact same. We are not talking about designing an entirely new vehicle. With the extensive vehicle lineup available to them I’m sure the engineers at ford could figure out a inexpensive solution using already available components. Heck maybe it comes from the factory with adapter plates for the tranny bell housing and transfercase. Besides that what is required? Different length drive shafts and the shifter position in the cab. I bet the most expensive part would be redesigning the steering column to remove the auto shift lever.
I think Ford (or other manufacturer) could add 0.2% more of effort in the design phase and gain 1% more sales.
I would try building a Ford or a Dodge with the small V8 and a manual. I know on the Dodge, that once you select the HEMI, it is an automatic only. But, if you select the 4.7L you can get a 6-speed manual. I would buy the smaller V8 to get the manual, then buy some power adders for the engine.
The '07 f-150 is aviable with a manual transmission. But only with the V6 engine (not a total deal breaker) and no 4x4 (which is a deal breaker). I did spend some time clicking on the Dodge website and couldn't make anything I found acceptible. I don't remember the exact reason, but I beleave they has simular limitations to the ford.
The reason the auto sell better other than laziness is, they never had to learn on a stick. If a manual show up on lot around my area in anything almost it doesn't last long. My local Ford dealer has to order manuals just to get them on lot.
Allot of people that like manuals use their trucks. And most of them will buy a used one. Even if I have the money I & my coworkers just buy a 2 yr old truck and save cash. So the market isn't great on new one.
But if you haul a manual is way to go . I have driven then all Allison auto,dodge auto , Ford auto. And you can't beat real gear box to keep the rpm just where you want and not loose the HP of the auto. And gain MPG
What it amounts to is the parts are there in the F250 ETC so they would only need clutch peddles ,what ever linkage they use, trans ans drive shafts,and a ECM for motor.Most of which are already being used in production elsewhere.
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Red Neck rule #1 If you drive a truck you should always be looking for trucks to get parts off of. If you can't find part used you aren't looking hard enough.
I agree that the majority want automatic so that is where the manufacturers should concentrate. But to make a truck with a manual transmission 98.7% of the truck is the exact same. We are not talking about designing an entirely new vehicle. With the extensive vehicle lineup available to them I’m sure the engineers at ford could figure out a inexpensive solution using already available components. Heck maybe it comes from the factory with adapter plates for the tranny bell housing and transfercase. Besides that what is required? Different length drive shafts and the shifter position in the cab. I bet the most expensive part would be redesigning the steering column to remove the auto shift lever.
I think Ford (or other manufacturer) could add 0.2% more of effort in the design phase and gain 1% more sales.
Ford also has to go through all emissions and EPA testing for every engine tranny combination as well. That is very pricey and time consuming. They also have PCM changes and a multitude of small items that the arm-chair engineer doesn't think of. What about crash testing? Do they have to test each combination? I don't know, but it is conceivable since a different tranny may have an effect on the crumple zones.
If the demand was truly there, I'm sure Ford would be producing it if they could make a profit.
Ford also has to go through all emissions and EPA testing for every engine tranny combination as well. That is very pricey and time consuming. They also have PCM changes and a multitude of small items that the arm-chair engineer doesn't think of. What about crash testing? Do they have to test each combination? I don't know, but it is conceivable since a different tranny may have an effect on the crumple zones.
If the demand was truly there, I'm sure Ford would be producing it if they could make a profit.
As said above alot of this stuff is already there in the superduty, granted the interior (shifters among one thing) are already there in the superduties, as correct me if i'm but isn't the zf avaible behind the 5.4 in the superduties? (i could be wrong, as i haven't kept up to date on the new offerings, if so ignore this ) therefore wouldn't the electronics be there already, granted a different tune will be needed but thats a relatively cheap mod to do in comparison to some other things that could be more substaintal. For towing, and i do a lot of towing, i would take a manual over an auto all day long cause the hunting for gears that autos do in the hilly sections of road drive me nuts, like when you go up a hill downshift, then it levels off just long enough to down shift but theres another hill right there and it shifts back thus losing speed and unecessary shifts, yes the new autos are very advanced and what not, but they can't predict the road, another example is of in town and using the motor to compression brake, its a lot easier on the truck to do this using a clutch than down shifting, also tranny temps suddenly aren't as big of an issue (granted its still an issue), but i'm rambling so i'll stop now.
__________________ Cody, Edmonton AB/BCChapter Leader 82' Flareside: 2/4 Drop, 350hp 351W, Custom interior 81' 250 mudder: home fabbed lift & dana 60 SAS , 400C 4v, 4sp/205
The whole root of the problem is that the "focus" groups that the manufacturers look to all consist of a handful of latte-swilling urban/suburban types. People who think that "hard work" consists of scoring an extra bag of Alpo at Costco - not people who use mesquite trees as a pinstriping brush.
Out here in the real America, the loss of a real manual keeps new trucks sitting on the sales lot for much longer than they would have in the past.
For years, the truck to own was a single cab, shortbed 4x4 ½ ton, with a 4-speed, or later, 5 speed. Now the Motor Trend readers have decided we all want an extended cab, with a 12 speed Auto, 57" rims, leather trimmed everything, and a capuccino machine in the glovebox.
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1996 F150 Eddie Bauer 4x2
1975 F100 4x4
Wife's 2002 Mercury Mountaineer
1984 K5 Blazer lawn ornament that I still swear I'll get around to someday
The root of the problem is that we used to have options to choose from, now the only choice we have is what interior we want. The way some of these people react you would think we were suggesting that they drop the automatic transmissions entirely and only offer manuals. Bring back some real options to choose from and maybe we could all get the truck that WE want.
The root of the problem is that we used to have options to choose from, now the only choice we have is what interior we want. The way some of these people react you would think we were suggesting that they drop the automatic transmissions entirely and only offer manuals. Bring back some real options to choose from and maybe we could all get the truck that WE want.
You get to pick the truck's color.
Serously, I used ford's website to "build my truck" the way I wanted it. Then I used the "search dealer lots for this configuration" function. It quickly found seventeen trucks that were supost to be close to my configuration. The first eight listed seemed to be chosen because they were the right color.
Shouldn't my drivetrain and body style choices be the most important things to base thesearch on? I'm flexible on color. But if I ask for a black crew cab don't show me a regular cab just because it is black.
The '07 f-150 is aviable with a manual transmission. But only with the V6 engine (not a total deal breaker) and no 4x4 (which is a deal breaker). I did spend some time clicking on the Dodge website and couldn't make anything I found acceptible. I don't remember the exact reason, but I beleave they has simular limitations to the ford.
I looked at the Dodge site, you can still build a 1/2 ton 4x4 with a 6-spd manual & V8 (TRX4 model), I know, it's a Dodge. Let the flaming begin!! If I was in the market for a new 1/2 ton 4x4 with manual, I guess I would have to buy the Dodge. Ford would just have to settle for one less sale.
__________________ Current Rides: '88 F150 XLT 4X4, RC, LB, 5.0L, 4spd Manual '03 Neon SXT, 2.0L, 5 spd Manual
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) therefore wouldn't the electronics be there already, granted a different tune will be needed but thats a relatively cheap mod to do in comparison to some other things that could be more substaintal. For towing, and i do a lot of towing, i would take a manual over an auto all day long cause the hunting for gears that autos do in the hilly sections of road drive me nuts, like when you go up a hill downshift, then it levels off just long enough to down shift but theres another hill right there and it shifts back thus losing speed and unecessary shifts, yes the new autos are very advanced and what not, but they can't predict the road, another example is of in town and using the motor to compression brake, its a lot easier on the truck to do this using a clutch than down shifting, also tranny temps suddenly aren't as big of an issue (granted its still an issue), but i'm rambling so i'll stop now.
351W, Custom interior
