I don't see what bad fuel economy has to do with having a real truck. With a diesel engine it would naturally do better than the V-10 anyway. Might even pull as good if you hook it up with programers. Most of the stuff I consider "real truck" would probably make the truck get better fuel economy anyway. I'm not saying that leather, wood trim, chrome plated interiors, huge wheels, or fancy doodads make a truck less of a truck, I'm just saying they make it girly, and I don't want to buy a sissy bling truck. I don't think that automatics are bad or in any way contribute to sissyness, I just perfer a manual in a truck.
did you just say that the diesel will only pull as good as the v10 IF you have a programmer?? ha wow do my sides hurt!!! i think someone needs to get out of the IDI days
__________________ 1997 ford f350
dual 5x36" angle cut MBRP stacks
34's at the moment 3" downpipe
tymar intake gauges
BTS valve body
stage II injectors
intercooler
twildman chip
You spend your money how you want and let others spend theirs how they want.
That is what people who want manuals have been saying all along. Nobody is suggesting that automatics should be dropped and all trucks should have manuals, but whenever someone suggests that manuals should be offered in addition to autos the auto people come out and explain why autos are better and everyone should have them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordmantpw
IMHO, I commend Ford for trying to give everyone something they want, within reason.
My problem with Ford is that they are making very little effort to give people what they want. A large group of buyers are being alienated not by the availability of comfort options, but by the more basic options being either restricted or dropped altogether.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordmantpw
There just isn't enough demand for manual trannies to build something to go behind the larger V8's.
As far back as 1989 I had to go to three different dealers to get a truck with a manual. The dealers just didn't want to order it for me and getting one was like pulling teeth. I also had friends around the same time who couldn't believe I got a manual because when they bought their trucks the salespeople told them manuals were no longer available in F150s. The demand was there, Ford just didn't want to fill it.
My problem with Ford is that they are making very little effort to give people what they want. A large group of buyers are being alienated not by the availability of comfort options, but by the more basic options being either restricted or dropped altogether.
You do make a point... But Ford has the best options of all the truck manufacturers out there for those that want a "work truck"
Although - admittedly most of it is in the 3/4ton range.
But tried getting a stick behind a GM in any truck?
Ford still offers manual hubs, manual transfer case, manual trans, vinyl interior etc.
Quote:
As far back as 1989 I had to go to three different dealers to get a truck with a manual. The dealers just didn't want to order it for me and getting one was like pulling teeth. I also had friends around the same time who couldn't believe I got a manual because when they bought their trucks the salespeople told them manuals were no longer available in F150s. The demand was there, Ford just didn't want to fill it.
That is another point - one that I honestly can't blame dealers.
It is hard to find anything but a F150 that isn't a Lariat with a 5.4, or an F250 that isn't a Lariat Crew Cab 4x4 with an auto and a PSD.
Thats because its what the majority of the populace wants.
I don't mind waiting 6-8weeks for the truck I want.
On the plus side I know it hasn't been sitting there for 12months too.
did you just say that the diesel will only pull as good as the v10 IF you have a programmer?? ha wow do my sides hurt!!! I think someone needs to get out of the IDI days
Well the V-10 is quite a puller, and from what I hear big gas engines do better on hills (stock vs stock) than the diesels do. Well at least the 8.1 Chevy did, but it's an 8.1 not a 6.8. I was refering to the 4.4 diesel by the way which we don't really know the numbers on yet, but I have heard 500+ tq. I hope it's at least as light as a big gas engine like a 454, and 460, that way it don't sink to the bottom of the mudhole.
Well the V-10 is quite a puller, and from what I hear big gas engines do better on hills (stock vs stock) than the diesels do. Well at least the 8.1 Chevy did, but it's an 8.1 not a 6.8. I was refering to the 4.4 diesel by the way which we don't really know the numbers on yet, but I have heard 500+ tq. I hope it's at least as light as a big gas engine like a 454, and 460, that way it don't sink to the bottom of the mudhole.
ohh gotcha i thought you meant like the 7.3, 6.0, 6.4 etc... nothin pulls like a 7.3
__________________ 1997 ford f350
dual 5x36" angle cut MBRP stacks
34's at the moment 3" downpipe
tymar intake gauges
BTS valve body
stage II injectors
intercooler
twildman chip
It's like this guys. As far as a "real mans truck" is concerned as it relates to a new truck. A 3/4 ton or larger I think Ford is without a doubt the best of the "Big 3." But for a half ton I'd have to go with the Chevy 1500 (sorry just calling it as I see it)
Some good points, some funny... here's my beef with Ford. Why can't a person ORDER leather seats on whatever truck they want. I like to keep my trucks for a few years and I use them for work. Which to me means getting in and out many times to do pick-ups for our business. Cloth seats simply wear out too fast and vinyl doesn't breathe. I can clean mud and junk off of leather seats just as easy as vinyl, and they will last much longer. In fact IMO leather looks better with age. Anyone who disputes the strength of leather material for a work truck's seats needs to check out the material on the old four-legged farm "work trucks" seats. Ever see a cloth saddle?
I am not so sure that the problem with getting a manual trans. is with Ford. I am thinking that it has more to do with the dealers. They view an auto as a truck they can sell to anybody, whereas a stick is only for a few. This has been proven several times on this thread alone. How many of you would have prefered a stick but settled for an auto because "that is what you could get". I am currently in the same boat with the trucks I am looking at. On the 250, why the heck does the trans affect what heater I can get? Why can I not get captins chairs with a stick? Almost all will settle for an auto to get the other stuff we want, when we want it.
In my opinion its the dealers fault the sticks are so hard to come by, not Ford, Chevy or Dodge. The demand is there, its just unfulfilled.
__________________
CL
So, who hired Wile E. Coyote as a consultant?
1997 F-250 4WD W/460 & a manual
2003 SVT Focus (The Go-Cart)
1967 Mustang Coupe W/351W & a 3spd. (Temporarily Retired)
Some good points, some funny... here's my beef with Ford. Why can't a person ORDER leather seats on whatever truck they want.
Not one thing wrong with that. So long as vinyl and cloth are provided as options on the same truck. I realy don't think (at least IMO) that it matters what Ford builds as long as they build what the customer wants. And it would cetrtianly seem as though when it comes to trucks they are not doing that. The trim level is a good deal but not taken far enough to make a difference. And for that matter why should the drivetrain be affected but the trim level.
If I had it my way; ....
There'd be an XL trim with no head liner, vinyl bench seat, no radio, no A/C, manual windows and locks, etc., etc.,
The Lariat trim with leather bucket seats automatic A/C, auto trany keyless entry, power everything etc.
Then the XLT would be some where in the middle.
Ford is doing this right now, But not to the degree it needs to be done. If they call it a base model it should at least be one. At the present time it is not.
You guys forget two things. First Ford could possibly go under which means we'll be tracking these things down, not bitching about what is offered.
Second you want a work truck? What kind? A field truck, welding truck, highway pulling? There isn't one kind of work. Does the army use one kind of hummer or even one kind of stryker? The fact is a truck has to be designed are a type of work to make it perfect. To me a work truck is one you shouldn't be afraid to scratch or beat the living crap out of, and yet something tells me I wouldn't want to scratch a 25-50k truck. I payed $600 for my 89. And it has all the options I want, and with some acc it will be my perfect work truck. It has 120k miles I know it can have almost 130 to 200 more without breaking a sweat.
The only thing that is common to all work trucks is reliabilty. And these new trucks just haven't been around long enough to prove them selves to me. Nor an I afford them.
Personnally my next truck will be an 97 F-250 ext cab long bed with 4.10 front and rear with the dana 60 up front. A C6 or ZF5 tranny behind a 7.3 power stroker. The only options I want are power windows, locks, cruise control, and sliding rear window. The rest I'll do to it.
__________________
91 F-150 302 Nite 4x4 Ext Cab 312,000 miles
In junk Yard... RIP baby.
89 F-150 Lariat 4x4 Std Cab Long Bed 125,000 miles on a 351 C6 3.55 posi
Blew a head gasket the other week, beginning total overhaul on everything.
Last edited by 91 F-150 Farm Truck : 08-22-2007 at 10:50 AM.
You guys forget two things. First Ford could possibly go under which means we'll be tracking these things down, not bitching about what is offered.
Second you want a work truck? What kind? A field truck, welding truck, highway pulling? There isn't one kind of work. Does the army use one kind of hummer or even one kind of stryker? The fact is a truck has to be designed are a type of work to make it perfect. To me a work truck is one you shouldn't be afraid to scratch or beat the living crap out of, and yet something tells me I wouldn't want to scratch a 25-50k truck. I payed $600 for my 89. And it has all the options I want, and with some acc it will be my perfect work truck. It has 120k miles I know it can have almost 130 to 200 more without breaking a sweat.
The only thing that is common to all work trucks is reliabilty. And these new trucks just haven't been around long enough to prove them selves to me. Nor an I afford them.
Personnally my next truck will be an 97 F-250 ext cab long bed with 4.10 front and rear with the dana 60 up front. A C6 or ZF5 tranny behind a 7.3 power stroker. The only options I want are power windows, locks, cruise control, and sliding rear window. The rest I'll do to it.
Does FORD offer the C6 in a 7.3L. C4/C6 are nice trannys when hopped up.
__________________
1999 FORD F-250, V10 4x4 4.30 LS
1968 Cougar 347 CI / C4
1973 Chevrolet Impala 350/350
I would much rather have a 73-79 truck. Simple and easy to work on. I am guilty, I drive a half ton and really use it to go back and forth to work. It is rarely used and getting 16mpg to do it. I'm going to sell my old car that I was going to restore and buy myself a 79-79 lwb and since they make a bunch of reproduced stuff I will fix it and sell my dd half ton and buy a sedan that gets in the mid to upper 20's. Some guys can warrant using a half ton everyday but I have figured I am not one of them. And besides, when I need a truck I will have a real truck.
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