Brake Upgrades

[grover]

I know that brake upgrades get discussed quite a bit all over the FTE forums, but I'm going to toss out a question anyway.

Grover has those single-piston brake cylinders on the front, which just looks like a bad design even for a 53-year-old truck. I've been considering a couple of options: (1) Upgrade to front drum brakes from a later model F250 (say the '67 through '75 models) or (2) upgrade to disc brakes.

I want to stay with my front existing axle, and even the existing spindles, if at all possible, because I'm too much a cheapskate to redo the kingpins. The drum brake upgrade sounds good to me because I'd like to keep the original look but enjoy the benefits of stopping better, and it seems to me I'd be able to amke the swap fairly painlessly. I'm not too sure about going to disc brakes because F250 disc brake kits (were I to go that way) seem to be hard to find and expensive.

I did read a tech article today about a fellow who put disc brakes on his early '70s E200 van and was able to do so with his existing spindles. However, I'm not sure if his axle is close enough to the 1954 axle I have.

Yeah, I've been asking weird questions. What can I say? It's spring, when all the wrenches come out!

[bobbytnm]

Don,

I don't know for sure but I would think it would be fairly easy (and I even managed to say that with a straight face) to adapt some later model backing plates to your truck.
I would bet that later model backing plates would bolt right up or be easily modified. The main things to look at would be the diameter of the drums and the distance from the spindle mounting area that the backing plate sits and the width of the brake shoes

When I was messing around with the 1960 9" I put under my 49 I wanted to upgrade the brakes so get rid of the manual adjusters. No biggie, I went to the store and asked for the parts for a 66 or later truck adn within a couple of hours I had self adjusting brakes...woohoo

Bobby

[4tl8ford]

Don
Do you have a good ol junkyard in the area?
I'd pull the backing plate and brakes as a unit and go there and talk to the head parts man.
Also I'd put a dual master cyl on Grover, he'd like that.

[ksmith203]

Boy would grover be sporting in style then, dual cylinder ....oh boy!

[f250red]

54 f100 disc brake kits fit f250 spindles.I put a kit on my 54 f250 spindle are the same
F250 RED

[Max E]

Disc brake upgrades is about $500 or less and they fit your spindles. Put in a double master, to seperate front and back and if you really are interested you can put power disk for about twice the money
Max E

[grover]

Originally Posted by 4tl8ford

Don
Do you have a good ol junkyard in the area?
I'd pull the backing plate and brakes as a unit and go there and talk to the head parts man.
Also I'd put a dual master cyl on Grover, he'd like that.

A dual master cylinder DEFINITELY fits into my plans. I want one with a remote reservoir, but I have an old (dead) VW that happens to have a reservoir to lend, so that won't be a problem.

[ksmith203]

ooohoo grover, your going to be styling now

[55 f350]

I'm no expert but itried to swap the front drum brakes off of a 70 f 250 i parted onto my 55's original 1 ton chassis and the only problem i had was the diameter's of the spindles were different and there isn't a soul in any of these modern day parts houses that can help you with different bearings to enable the swap or spend the time to even attempt to try , so I gave up . i do know that you can swap late 60's to mid 70's front brakes spindles etc. on to the effie's { one ton's } by reaming out your axle to accept the larger king pin from the later stuff . BUT if you do you open up a whole 'nother can of worms as you have to mix and match parts to make the steering peices work . I gave up as it was starting to get expensive as everyone think's the parts they got are made of gold here for the older stuff.

[bobbytnm]

You might have some luck going to the Timken, or one of the other manufactures websites and doing some research. I'll bet they have charts showing the critical dimensions of the bearings.
Also check your local yellow pages for bearings, you might be pleasantly suprised. There used to be a great outfit in my town with really helpful guys. They could find bearings for any application.

The local parts houses are a joke for real information....they are jus there to peddle parts for the every day cars

Bobby

[Marmon]

I'm starting a project to increase the size of the front brakes of my '59 F100 4x4, from it's original 11" x 2". I took backing plates from a '74 F250 4x4 (12" x 2") axle and am using early 60's Buick aluminum drums and shoes with these to produce 12"x2-1/4" brakes. It sounds like a lot of work, but so far so good, and it's kind of an "old school" approach. I'll have to let you know how this ends up.

[grover]

Originally Posted by Marmon

I'm starting a project to increase the size of the front brakes of my '59 F100 4x4, from it's original 11" x 2". I took backing plates from a '74 F250 4x4 (12" x 2") axle and am using early 60's Buick aluminum drums and shoes with these to produce 12"x2-1/4" brakes. It sounds like a lot of work, but so far so good, and it's kind of an "old school" approach. I'll have to let you know how this ends up.

Hmmmm.... Smokey Yunick used Pontiac Tempest aluminum drums on his Indy car back in the '60s, and they didn't work too well. You'll probably be okay if you don't go faster than 150 mph, though.

Bobbytnm, your idea about checking with a bearing manufacturer might not be a bad idea. We have, or used to have, a Bruening Bearing place in Lexington, KY, so I might check with them. Failing that, we DO have some industrial supply places that might give me a lead.

You're right about how car parts places work nowadays. If it ain't in the computer, it doesn't exist, and Heaven help you if you want to do something non-stock with a part. Fortunately, there are still a couple of places around here where you can go around the counter and look in the books yourself.

You ought to try getting parts for a '70s era Craftsman rototiller at your local Sears place when you don't have part numbers.

[bobbytnm]

Don,

Back when serpentine belts systems were fairly new there were several times where I needed bearings for and idler pully or a belt tensioner. The dealer wanted to sell you the whole unit at a huge cost. Being the cheapskate that I am I was able to find the bearings locally for a fraction of the cost by going to a bearing dealer.

Here is the link to Timken and their various catalogs;
http://www.timken.com/products/beari...logs/index.asp

When I did the disc brake upgrade on my 49 the instructions tell you what bearings you need to adapt the new rotor to the old spindle. The kit does come with a spindle adapter which is a small sleave for the inner bearing on the spindle. The kit called for late model Ford truck rotors (73-90 I think) and inner bearings and seals. The outer bearings were spec'd out as mid 1970's GM mid sized car outer bearings (monte carlo, chevelle, etc)

Maybe with the specs for the spindle OD and the hub ID you might find something in the catalogs.

Ol' Smokey Yunick was quite the character wasn't he?

Bobby

[ranch67]

hey all, i posted something similar to this discussion.
i have a 59 f-250 with the 1-1/4" bore master. and from what i've been finding, the wheel cylinders are 1-1/8".
my master is shot and will need rebuild, but i was considering a dual reservoir from a late 60's F-250. these masters are only 7/8" bore. the F-350 was only 1-1/8" bore.
i have the large 17" wheels also and didnt think downsizing brake line sizing would be a good idea.
i also didnt want to spend $400+ for power brakes setup.
i just was looking to see if anybody successfully swapped a newer master for this larger line brake system.

thanks

[grover]

You've got me scratcing my head now, Ranch. I remember once reading about the effects of changing master cylinder bore size, but I cannot for the life of me remember where I read it.

If I have my brain screwed on right this morning, it seems to me that a dual master cylinder divides the braking effort between two parts of the piston (one half to the front, the other to the back of the truck), which effectively halves the necessary piston bore size to get the job done. In other words, a 7/8" dual master cylinder is actually doing the work of one 1 3/4" single master cylinder. If that is the case, the later F250 dual master cylinder will not only work but will improve your braking. The safety margin you get from having two reservoirs is always nice, too. On three occasions in my life I've had the exciting experience of brake failure with a single master cylinder.

I REALLY don't want to do that again!