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  #1  
Old 04-09-2007, 12:35 PM
nascar6dude nascar6dude is offline
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Mercon/ Mercon V compatibility

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I posted this response from Royal Purple in another thread concerning the compatibility of tranny fluids, and how Ford warns in our Owners Manual not to mix the two. Is Ford just trying to screw us into using the higher priced Mercon V, which I hear goes for about $8 a quart? What do ya'll think?






Charles,

First - Mercon and Mercon V are fully compatible. The statements that they are not were an attempt by Ford to discourage use of the older mineral versions of Mercon - which would have been cheaper in price than the hydrocracked mineral oil versions of the Mercon V.

A hydrocracked mineral oil is known as a API Group II or Group III.

Royal Purple makes an API Group IV fully synthetic Mercon which exceeds the performance of the Mercon V.

You can safely use the RP MaxATF in your vehicle and it will be 100% compatible with the current Mercon V that is the factory fill in your transmission.

ATF fluids are changing rapidly with well over 35+ different formulations.
GM Dexron VI
GM Dexron IIIH
GM Dexron IIE
Ford Mercon V
Ford Mercon SP
Ford Mercon
Ford Type F
Toyota Type IV
Chrysler ATF+4
Chrysler ATF+3
Honda ATF Z-1
Nissan Matic J
Nissan Matic K
Hyundai SP III
BMW has several
Mercedes Benz
VW
Land Rover
Etc

Royal Purple is about making better fluids - the current new fluids - to be recognized by the particular OEM for warranty purposes requires an exact copy of the OEM fluid and paying a licensing fee - meaning that it is exactly as what the consumer could get from the dealer.

It's a quandary currently - as even if you make it - how do you get sufficient shelf space to move enough volume to offset the licensing fees.

Cheers,

David
\

David Canitz
Tech Services Manager
Royal Purple Ltd
1 Royal Purple Lane
Porter, TX 77365
281-354-8600 x202
281-354-7335 fax
713-725-7207 cell
dcanitz@royalpurple.com







See what's free at AOL.com.

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  #2  
Old 04-09-2007, 12:57 PM
osteodoc08 osteodoc08 is offline
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I was under the impression that Mercon V can be used in Mercon spec'd vehicles, however, Mercon could not be used in Mercon V spec'd vehicles. I'm surprised R-P would allow a CS rep say that, even if it were true. This could put R-P on the hook for anyone that had a tranny failure because of putting Mercon in a Mercon V spec'd tranny.


Given the price of gas these days, I don't see how everyone can complain about oil and fluid prices. A tranny flush costs what $150 at most. At a 30K mile interval, that is only 1/2 of 1 cent per mile. Synthetic oil change is what $50. For a 5K mile interval, that is only 1 cent per mile. If gas is $2.50 a gallon and we get at most 20mpg, that costs 12.5 cents per mile.

I don't mind spending the extra little bit for premium fluids and oils for my truck. But that's me, however, I know some cheap people that will do anything to save a few cents now.
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  #3  
Old 04-10-2007, 12:52 AM
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osteodoc08,

Ditto.


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  #4  
Old 05-15-2012, 08:55 PM
dhafenstein dhafenstein is offline
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Mercon vs Mercon V

I have been wondering about this for a while, and it came to a head when I accidentally changed the fluid in a 2006 Escape with Mercon V. I went ahead and flushed the system and refilled with Mercon, then began wondering if I had done that prematurely. So, I did a little digging on the internet and found that Ford has officially stated that it is ok to use Mercon V to service Mercon transmissions. The following is a clip from a trade magazine where the Ford ATF engineer was presenting information to SAE...

--- start of copy ---
For over a decade, Ford Motor Co. has licensed its trademarked Mercon automatic transmission fluid for the service-fill marketplace. Last week, the automaker announced it is going to retire that specification, in a move designed to encourage the lubricants industry to embrace its replacement, the stringent Mercon V spec.

Speaking April 4 in Dearborn, Mich., to the SAE Technical Committee 3 on ATF, Gear Oils and Greases, Ford’s Chintan Ved announced that effective July 1, no new Mercon licenses will be issued. All remaining Mercon licenses will expire on or before June 30, 2007, leaving a clear field thereafter for Mercon V.

Ved, based at Ford’s Automatic Transmission New Product Center in Livonia, Mich., is the company’s lead development engineer for ATF. He noted that although his company has recommended Mercon V for all vehicles for the past seven or eight years, most Ford models on the road continue to be serviced by Mercon. Mercon V, however, is a far better product that more closely resembles the factory-fill ATF which Ford has used for over eight years. It requires the use of a more shear-stable viscosity index improver, and Group II or Group II-plus base oil to meet its viscosity and oxidation targets.

“All transmissions recommending Mercon ATF can now be serviced with Mercon V,” Ved later told Lube Report. “Mercon V is a tighter specification, requiring better anti-oxidation, antiwear and anti-shudder properties from service-fill ATFs. We are doing this because we want to ensure our customers get the better fluid.

--- end copy ---


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  #5  
Old 05-15-2012, 09:04 PM
94powerstroke 94powerstroke is offline
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valvoline maxlife atf is mercon V compatible or atleast claims to be thats what it says on the label, i was led to believe years ago that mercon V is synthetic? Ive used the maxlife in my 04 crown vic and never had an issue with it
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:05 PM
dhafenstein dhafenstein is offline
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Is Ford trying to gouge us?

I don't think so, at least not intentionally. Developing products is an involved and evolving process that requires changes along the way. As products evolve, their requirements change and it may not always be obvious, or even measurable, if there are compatibility problems or not. Often times, faced with these situations, a product engineer will take the conservative stand and say things like "I don't think it would be a good idea to mix them", which gets translated to "WARNING: Mercon and Mercon V are not interchangeable".

Later, as the products evolve more and more testing is done, it may become evident that "oh, there isn't really an issue here", and then you get statements like the above from the ATF lead engineer.

Having spent many years in product development as a lead and project engineer, I am not surprised by this and accept it as just the nature of the beast.

Just my $.02 worth...
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  #7  
Old 05-15-2012, 09:13 PM
dhafenstein dhafenstein is offline
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More Thinking

Being able to service a Mercon transmission (or rather a transmission labeled for use with Mercon fluid) with Mercon V is NOT the same thing as using Mercon in a Mercon V transmission. In fact, I think that doing that would spell death to your Mercon V transmission. So, maybe the warning should still be in place for transmissions that require Mercon V.

Using Mercon V in a Mercon tranny - OK
Using Mercon in a Mercon V tranny - Fatal (probably)

Thoughts?

Also, from what I understand, Mercon V does not mean synthetic! Although most are probably at least blends.
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  #8  
Old 05-15-2012, 09:30 PM
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I have castrol Mercon V and it says just what others have said, it is OK to mix and match Mercon and Mercon V if the fluid specified is Mercon, but You must use Mercon V in Mercon V applications. So simple solution....just buy Mercon V, be it castol, royal purple, valvoline, motorcraft, or whatever.
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:48 PM
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As of June, 2006:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TSB
06-14-4 MERCON ATF IS BEING REPLACED BY MERCON V ATF AS A SERVICE FLUID.

Publication Date: June 29, 2006

FORD: 1980-1997 Crown Victoria
1981-1997 Mustang, Thunderbird
1981-2003 Escort
1986-1993 Festiva
1986-1997 Taurus
1989-1997 Probe
1994-1997 Aspire
1995-2000 Contour
1980-1996 Bronco
1981-2003 F-150
1981-2004 E-Series, F-Super Duty
1983-1996 Ranger
1986-1996 Aerostar
1991-1997 Explorer
1993-2004 F-53 Motorhome Chassis
1995-1998 Windstar
1997-2004 Expedition
2000-2005 Excursion
2001-2007 Escape
1987-2000 F- & B-Series
2000-2007 F-650, F-750
LINCOLN: 1980-1997 Town Car
1981-1997 Continental
1993-1997 Mark VIII
1998-2004 Navigator
2002-2003 Blackwood
MERCURY: 1980-1997 Grand Marquis
1981-1997 Cougar
1986-1997 Sable
1987-1999 Tracer
1995-2000 Mystique
1999-2002 Cougar
1993-2002 Villager
1997 Mountaineer
2005-2007 Mariner
MERKUR: 1985-1989 XR4TI

This article supersedes TSB 01-15-7 to update the vehicle application chart.

ISSUE:
MERCON® Automatic Transmission Fluid is being replaced by MERCON® V as a service fluid.

ACTION:
Beginning immediately all automatic transmission / transaxle applications requiring MERCON® can now be serviced using MERCON® V or MERCON® Automatic Transmission Fluid or dual usage fluids labeled MERCON® / MERCON® V. After July 1, 2007, MERCON® Automatic Transmission Fluid will no longer be manufactured, therefore, availability of this fluid will only continue for however long it takes to deplete what remains in inventory.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

Service automatic transmissions requiring MERCON® with MERCON® V or MERCON® Automatic Transmission Fluid or dual usage fluids labeled MERCON® / MERCON® V

For proper fluid application on current and past model vehicles equipped with automatic transmissions / transaxles refer to the fluid usage chart. (Figure 1)

CAUTION: AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS / TRANSAXLES THAT REQUIRE MERCON® V SHOULD STILL ONLY USE MERCON® V OR DUAL USAGE FLUID LABELED MERCON® / MERCON® V.

CAUTION: MERCON® SP, MOTORCRAFT PREMIUM AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID AND MOTORCRAFT M5 ATFS ARE UNIQUE FLUIDS AND MUST BE USED IN APPLICATIONS RECOMMENDING THAT PARTICULAR FLUID. USE OF ANY OTHER FLUID MAY CAUSE REDUCED FUNCTIONALITY OR TRANSMISSION DAMAGE.

CAUTION: THE FUNCTIONAL CHARACTERISTICS OF FLUIDS FOR CVT TRANSMISSIONS ARE VERY DIFFERENT THAN THOSE OF OTHER AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUIDS (ATFS). USE OF A FLUID OTHER THAN MOTORCRAFT CONTINUOUSLY VARIABLE CHAIN TYPE TRANSMISSION FLUID OR ONE LABELED AS MEETING MERCON® C WILL CAUSE FUNCTIONALITY CONCERNS AND INTERNAL TRANSMISSION DAMAGE.

CAUTION: DO NOT USE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID SUPPLEMENTS, ADDITIVES, TREATMENTS OR CLEANING AGENTS.

PART NUMBER PART NAME
XT-2-QDX MERCON® (Quart)
XT-2-DDX MERCON® (55 Gal. Drum)
XT-5-QM MERCON® V (Quart)
XT-5-DM MERCON® V (55 Gal. Drum)

WARRANTY STATUS:
Information Only
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As stated in post #4, the license has expired. And as Mark K has said to me, "Ford and GM no longer license Dexron III/MERCON. Nobody is watching what's in them. MERCON V is licensed by Ford so there is some monitoring the fluid."

Stewart
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94powerstroke View Post
valvoline maxlife atf is mercon V compatible or atleast claims to be thats what it says on the label, i was led to believe years ago that mercon V is synthetic? Ive used the maxlife in my 04 crown vic and never had an issue with it
Which Maxlife ATF are you using?

Also, unless the bottle say's it's synthetic, the trans fluid isn't synthetic, it's dyno based.

Stewart
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  #11  
Old 05-19-2012, 12:15 PM
Lwoodhams Lwoodhams is offline
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Mixing Different Brand Merc Vs

I recently flushed the tranny on my 06 F150 by disconnecting the return line. For various reasons I ended up with about 1/2 Valvoline Merc V and 1/2 Castrol Merc V. It was only later I found out that these are not necessarily the same product under different brands, but rather different products meeting the same specs. I figure I'm probably ok, but any thoughts?
Louie
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lwoodhams View Post
I recently flushed the tranny on my 06 F150 by disconnecting the return line. For various reasons I ended up with about 1/2 Valvoline Merc V and 1/2 Castrol Merc V. It was only later I found out that these are not necessarily the same product under different brands, but rather different products meeting the same specs. I figure I'm probably ok, but any thoughts?
Louie
personally I wouldn't worry a thing about it, but that is just me.
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:48 PM
 
 
 
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