1. DIesel is cheaper than gasoline right now in many states in the U.S. $2.70-2.85 in AZ for example...
2. If you are going to use an F-150 to tow at the max towing weight it allows, m the diesel will tow much better with less downshifting to hold speeds.
3. Fuel Economy a diesel in the F-150 would get great mileage compared to the thirsty 5.4.
4. A diesel engine typically will last twice as long (sometime 3 or 4 times longer) than a gasoline motor even with a history of driving it very hard (towing etc...)
4. A diesel engine typically will last twice as long (sometime 3 or 4 times longer) than a gasoline motor even with a history of driving it very hard (towing etc...)
Don't even get started on that crap. The engine itself might last that long but everything else around it doesn't. You have lift pumps, injectors, cooling system, injection pumps, high pressure oil lines, glow plugs. These are common and expensive parts to replace on a diesel engine that start going bad at 100,000 miles (my personal experience). Then you add in all the stuff that happens to any vehicle, transmission, head gaskets, regular service, and add it all up. The newer Tritons have shown to be very durable. I have seen V10s trucks and vans on Ebay with 300,000 miles. I heard of a tow truck with 400,000 miles.
You also mentioned fuel prices. Diesel has been more expensive than reg. unleaded for about two years now. It has just recently reversed and diesel will probably catch up.
Fuel mileage is all relative. My PSDs (7.3Ls and 6.0Ls) at work only got about 10mpg. They were E350 box Ambulances so the dynamics weren't great but my lifted F250 with 35s gets 12mpg. I drive my F250 alot harder than the ambulances.
Don't even get started on that crap. The engine itself might last that long but everything else around it doesn't. You have lift pumps, injectors, cooling system, injection pumps, high pressure oil lines, glow plugs. These are common and expensive parts to replace on a diesel engine that start going bad at 100,000 miles (my personal experience). Then you add in all the stuff that happens to any vehicle, transmission, head gaskets, regular service, and add it all up. The newer Tritons have shown to be very durable. I have seen V10s trucks and vans on Ebay with 300,000 miles. I heard of a tow truck with 400,000 miles.
But here is the thing, If you go into an engine at that type of mileage you will see this,
Diesel, clean crosshatched bore, only in need of new rings and a cylinder hone to be passed through in order to go another 3-400,000 or more.
Gasser, a clean crosshatched bore with a lip at the top of the cylinder about .002-.005" deep, The block will have to be bored and will require oversized rings and/or pistons, which will in effect completely change the engine from then on, and cut the 2nd life of that engine in half or more. It will never have the chance to last 300,000 again before it will be due another rebuild.
The block is what matters in an engine and a diesel is much softer on the internal parts of an engine compared to a gasser.
The gasser is getting better due to aluminum blocks with cast iron cylinder sleeves, technology which came from the diesel side. Now they have the same advantage since the actual cylinder can be replaced, add variable valve technology and that is suuuuuwwweeet!
__________________ "Always mystify, mislead, and surprise the enemy...repeated victory will make you invincible. Have faith in God that the victory will be won, irregardless of odds." --- Gen. T. J. Jackson
Club SNL- #13 '87 Bronco(daily driver) '91 F-150(ole faithfull) '78 F-150 4X (F. O. Resto) '76 F-150(parts) '77 F-150(wifes ride)
Buddy just did the 2 pumps on his Cummins..........$1600!!! But hey, his cylinders still have their cross hatches!!
And he will love those "cross hatches" when its time to sell or trade his truck.
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Powerstroking Seven T444Es, one VT365 and one 6.0. Also four DT466s, one DT360 and a Mercedes MBE906.
I'm doing my part to reduce food imports, control rising food costs and help feed the children, my trucks run on 100% petroleum diesel. What are you doing?
jeep has done it twice now...05/06 in the liberty w/ a 2.8 diesel. now the grand cherokee has a 3.0 v6 diesel. don't know the specs right off, but i know that little 2.8 I4 had 5K towing capability (guessing that was due to brakes/axles and not engine) and the v6 is more capable.
i'd love to see 1/2 trucks w/ a small diesel...about a 4.0L...something w/ a little over 200hp and just over 400 lb/ft torque. should be getting mid to high 20's in mileage.
the liberty had the diesel option for $1,200 in the upper-end model and just over $2000 in the lower model.
the more diesel trucks anyone sells...the lower the cost of diesel engines. we're paying for production/research/overhead...all that good stuff.
all the manufacturers should introduce diesels in 1/2 tons and sport utilities. i have a 1/2 ton and want diesel. i get 15mpg and want over 20. the most i've ever needed to tow so far has been just under 8000lb. i, personally would benefit from a 1/2 diesel...some won't.
what they do will depend on money and politics....and politics is all about money.
how much can they make..how much will the government give them...what can they get away with.
just my thoughts...then again, if my thoughts were worth a damn thing i wouldn't have to work for a living
jeep has done it twice now...05/06 in the liberty w/ a 2.8 diesel. now the grand cherokee has a 3.0 v6 diesel. don't know the specs right off, but i know that little 2.8 I4 had 5K towing capability (guessing that was due to brakes/axles and not engine) and the v6 is more capable.
i'd love to see 1/2 trucks w/ a small diesel...about a 4.0L...something w/ a little over 200hp and just over 400 lb/ft torque. should be getting mid to high 20's in mileage.
the liberty had the diesel option for $1,200 in the upper-end model and just over $2000 in the lower model.
the more diesel trucks anyone sells...the lower the cost of diesel engines. we're paying for production/research/overhead...all that good stuff.
all the manufacturers should introduce diesels in 1/2 tons and sport utilities. i have a 1/2 ton and want diesel. i get 15mpg and want over 20. the most i've ever needed to tow so far has been just under 8000lb. i, personally would benefit from a 1/2 diesel...some won't.
what they do will depend on money and politics....and politics is all about money.
how much can they make..how much will the government give them...what can they get away with.
just my thoughts...then again, if my thoughts were worth a damn thing i wouldn't have to work for a living
Fair post but I have a question/comment(s)......I KNOW VW didn't import diesels this year due to EPA BS.
I ASS/U/ME the Jeep diesel wasn't going to make '07 regs...
I KNOW the emissions hardware added $2,000 to the price of a PSD's already pricey $5,000
What do YOU think the price of a diesel option will be and at what point does it become cost prohibitive???
[$1,100 for my TDI was fair IMHO...I don't think I would have gone to $3,000]
i just checked the jeep site....the overland model comes w/ the hemi standard, or the 3.0 diesel for $2010. i'd pay that. i bought my ram 1/2 ton new in 04. it had an msrp of $35k+. for $37k it'd been worth it. but, if they try and stick us w/ a $6000 upgrade for diesel...to hell with them. also, just to throw some immaginary numbers out there...if ford sold 200,000 f150 each year and 50,000 were diesel, the cost for ford per engine would be lower and SHOULD be lower for us (the wal-mart strategy). so again, if they could offer a good diesel for around $2000, i'd go for it. wouldn't take too many trips to the petro station to make up that difference.
you're right about the diesel engines and the EPA. the 2.8 that jeep had didn't meet tier 3, but the 3.0 does...from what i read it was the only one that did at one time. i don't know if the 6.4 psd meets it or if it is even required to because of being in heavy duty vehicle.
The diesel will always cost more than the gasser, the real key is to make it a "good" diesel so that the used diesels are worth more than the used gassers.
"I KNOW the emissions hardware added $2,000 to the price of a PSD's already pricey $5,000"
I know the new 6.4 isn't really $7,000 and the 6.0 wasn't really $5,000 so the added cost isn't really $2000. And the added cost wasn't just for emissions hardware.
__________________
Powerstroking Seven T444Es, one VT365 and one 6.0. Also four DT466s, one DT360 and a Mercedes MBE906.
I'm doing my part to reduce food imports, control rising food costs and help feed the children, my trucks run on 100% petroleum diesel. What are you doing?
The diesel will always cost more than the gasser, the real key is to make it a "good" diesel so that the used diesels are worth more than the used gassers.
"I KNOW the emissions hardware added $2,000 to the price of a PSD's already pricey $5,000"
I know the new 6.4 isn't really $7,000 and the 6.0 wasn't really $5,000 so the added cost isn't really $2000. And the added cost wasn't just for emissions hardware.
Thank you for the "almost" correction......what is/were the optional price differences?
(I do always forget the V10 is a $600 option.........so the PSD is "only" has a MSRP of $6,400 more)
i just checked the jeep site....the overland model comes w/ the hemi standard, or the 3.0 diesel for $2010. i'd pay that. i bought my ram 1/2 ton new in 04. it had an msrp of $35k+. for $37k it'd been worth it. but, if they try and stick us w/ a $6000 upgrade for diesel...to hell with them. also, just to throw some immaginary numbers out there...if ford sold 200,000 f150 each year and 50,000 were diesel, the cost for ford per engine would be lower and SHOULD be lower for us (the wal-mart strategy). so again, if they could offer a good diesel for around $2000, i'd go for it. wouldn't take too many trips to the petro station to make up that difference.
you're right about the diesel engines and the EPA. the 2.8 that jeep had didn't meet tier 3, but the 3.0 does...from what i read it was the only one that did at one time. i don't know if the 6.4 psd meets it or if it is even required to because of being in heavy duty vehicle.
The "Wal-Mart" strategy doesn't seem to apply to PSD's..........over 70% of Super Duties are diesels.
And I agree that $6,000 (maybe even $5,000) would be a very steep price on a 1/2 ton.
BigF350 and I have a gentleman's bet (don't know how he qualifies.. ) on the F-150.....he says it'll be around a $3,000 option, I predict closer to $5,000.
With diesel currently up to $.30 cheaper a gallon than RUG......$3,000 would not be too hard to swallow.
Last year when diesel was $.30 more....harder to justify IMO.
Thank you for the "almost" correction......what is/were the optional price differences?
(I do always forget the V10 is a $600 option.........so the PSD is "only" has a MSRP of $6,400 more)
The 6.0 in a 2007 was a $5300 option.
The 6.4 in a 2008 is a $6895 option.
So the 6.4 costs $1595 more than the 6.0 and $6295 more than the V10
__________________
Powerstroking Seven T444Es, one VT365 and one 6.0. Also four DT466s, one DT360 and a Mercedes MBE906.
I'm doing my part to reduce food imports, control rising food costs and help feed the children, my trucks run on 100% petroleum diesel. What are you doing?
) on the F-150.....he says it'll be around a $3,000 option, I predict closer to $5,000.
