Did you buy or build your hydrogen generator? Either way I'd be intersted in more info. here.

 

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/6...002-7-3-a.html

Above is the link that got me started. It is long and detailed in places. Worth the read if you are interested. I just took a 5 gallon bucket and some stainless steel screen my buddy scavanged and made two cylinders to fit in the bucket. It is worth the build just to blow up a few plastic baggies. Wife put a stop to it when she found me and my son in the garage giggling our butts off after making alot of noise touching off the gas. It was funny as heck. I highly recommend it.

 

Don't have the fuel cells built yet but my daughter was home because she got off work early. I hooked the browns gas generator up and, at idle, readings went from 14.1 to 11.3. Almost a 3 point drop.

Granted this is one cylinder at idle. I have to convert the Dodge becasue I am spending $200.00 a week for fuel in it. I am looking forward to doing more testing with this an the old Mercedes.

I don't know if the increased efficiency will offset the increased electrical draw. I don't know if the efficiency will be maintained when the Brown's gas is a smaller percentage of the intake.

The most important part is I am having fun and find this fascinating. Thanks CB2.

 

Hello pasotx. Excellent usage of the glow plug reading method. You just proved the possibility that a hydrogen booster can improve engine efficiency.....believe it or not, that is a major finding in understanding the benefits of hydrogen boosting.........in pure science, using electricity to produce hydrogen will never be energy efficient even in a lab.....we must use the hydrogen as a catalyst to the combustion process..........at about 1% free hydrogen you start getting very measurable improvements in engine efficiency, at about 6% it is substantial..........

I noticed you posted that you are using a 5 gallon bucket in size..........please consider using 7 small cells wired in series........how many square inches of electrodes is a variable.......just remember that if the electrolyte is heating up in use, you need to increase the size of the electrodes in each cell........some people will report that as the cell got hotter it seems to work better, which is partly true (due to the hot water vapor being converted to free hydrogen in the intake and cylinder), but you can greatly improve the percentage of hydrogen at the intake valve by running a cooler cell under vacuum.

If you elect to run the cells under vacuum, then please consider putting a aquarium stone in the bottom of the cell that is plumbed to a outside air source so that the incoming Small air bubbles will flow by the electrodes to "scrub" the hydrogen bubbles from the electrodes...........

I want you to think about one word...................Bubbles.................

I Do Not want you to believe anything written in modern times about on board hydrogen production.........................believe Only what you see with your own eyes

crossbones

 

crossbones2,
I fear you have mistaken me for being more than a shade tree hack.
Thanks for your feedback.

That is probably far more complex than I could pull off. The 5 gallon bucket does not get very hot and the leads to the electrodes only get warm. How would I get a vacuum?

That is a cool idea. I can see how it would make a difference.

You said it. The inspirational part of your project is that you didn't tell everyone how well this worked, you encouraged me to "see for myself".

Thanks,
Pasotx

 

Crossbones, I want to thank you for that post about percentages.

I was working on a hydrox generator, hopefully big enough to get hydrogen production close to 1% of the intake volume.

But as I say this, I also look at the fact that that is 72 liters per minute at 2000 RPM.

I have been told that 2 liters per minute would be enough, which works out to .029% at 2000 RPM on a NA 6.9 engine.

I can't see 2 liters of hydrogen mixed into 6,898 liters of air making any difference at all at 2000 RPM.

 

Dave. This is my take on the way you are looking at your volume numbers. Of the 6898 liters of air only about 17-22% will be oxygen which can be used for combustion. The remaining percentage is not really used for combustion but it is the "working fluid" that the combustion process uses to apply "work against". When using a electrolyzer and using both the hydrogen and oxygen gases you have produced a fuel that is totally independent of the intake air flow (less the working fluid) as well as any diesel or gasoline in the cylinder.

If we think in terms of the hydrogen/oxygen being a potent catalyst and a bell curve where in the beginning low percentages of these gases produce high percentages of improvements to engine efficiency and as the percentage of hydrogen/oxygen goes up the percentage rate of engine efficiency increase starts to level out with existing design intake and exhaust systems.

Dave, I am saying this in the kindest way, "put your pencil down and just go do it, believe in your eyes, not what the pencil writes"

pasotx, if I told ya, you would never believe it..........and I am limited to what I can say because it is patented information.........

Proof is in the pudding, as it always has been since the early 1800's..............

crossbones

 

CB2,

Got the gen installed. Itis pulling close to or better than 50 amps. Takes at least 2 minutes to fill a plastic sandwich bag. Working on your suggestion for vacuume. If you can suggest what to use as a vac pump it would clear a hurdle for me. I will probably change out the water and see if the draw reduces will less baking soda.

 

pasotx, 12 volt vacuum pumps are "pricey"........only one automotive application comes to mind that may work if you can find a used one...........1982 Chevy Citation 2.5L.........I do not have direct knowledge of applying this pump, it is just from memory of selling it to a couple of street racers long ago to get brakes on their cars,,,,,I do remember that it had a high and low vacuum switch and was reported to me that it did a excellent job for them........

pasotx, using electricity to produce hydrogen is not my forte. Changing the electrolyte concentration does change amperage draw some as well as changing the amount of square inches exposed to the electrolyte , the distance between the electrode and cathode, materials used, electrolyte used, electrolyte temperature, etc.

basically, the objective is to used the least amount of electrical current to produce the highest amount of hydrogen/oxygen without wasting electrical current (heat).......

the theoretical voltage required to produce the hydrogen and oxygen is 1.229 volts

the hydrogen and oxygen bubbles produced want to "stick" to the electrode and cathode, so in a typical electrolizer cell about 1.8-2.6 are needed to "free" the bubbles or using a vacuum bubbler to "scrub" them free. The faster you scrub them free the more can be produce in a given time and/or allows for a decrease in over voltage applied to the cell...........

If this were a gasoline engine, another very simple way to increase total production of hydrogen is to plumb the "free air source" for the vacuum bubbler into the exhaust system pre catalytic converter ........with a diesel engine, some kind of particulate filter would be required......

crossbones

 

Pulling a vacuum on your HHO generator will not increase the HHO output. It will only cause the water to boil off as water vapor, not HHO. There is a problem with using baking soda. It is sodium bicarbonate, NaHCO3. The carbonate portion will degrade into oxygen and carbon. The carbon will coat your electrodes blocking the current flow, slowing down your already low output. The optimum electrolyte is said to be KOH, potassium hydroxide. It's available from pool supply houses for use as a ph balancer. Another problem with baking soda is that after the carbonate is gone you are left with lye, sodium hydroxide or caustic soda. The operator can be lulled into a false sense of security and end up with severe chemical burns if he doesn't use the proper precautions.

 

A good site to check out would be: http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Smack.html If subscribe to the Watercar forum on yahoo, you can chat with smack himself and a lot of people at various stages of development.

 

Marianna2003, Please give a read to the F.A.Q.'S section on the
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Smack.html

quote:
"2. It is true that putting an electrolyzer unit under vacuum will increase its hydroxy output as long as the temperature of the bath remains below its new boiling point. So the temptation to do this is great - but there is a problem even more serious than boiling. Think of how manifold vacuum works. For those of you that have a gage you know that vacuum is the highest when the throttle plate/s is/are closed. Vacuum is at its lowest value when the valve is wide open. This is the exact opposite of what you desire. You want the unit to be outputting its maximum when the throttle is wide open, not fully closed. This will cause engine management problems and reduce the effectiveness of your fuel savings. If one wishes to use vacuum to increase production, one would need to use a vacuum pump that provided a consistent value. The problem with that - now you have a larger volume of flammable hydroxy gas prone to ignition and being pumped through a mechanical device which could fail and blow up."


crossbones

 

He says that like it's a bad thing.


I always considered blowing things up part of the development process.

 

CB Good catch. I stand corrected.

 

pasotx, Marianna2003 and list. As I have said, my knowledge of producing hydrogen with electrical devices is not my strong point, I do have a "tiny bit" of knowledge about running a engine on hydrogen.

By far the largest safety factor is protecting the device from engine back fire. Using modern one way valves "may not" be enough protection Because of the flame speed of hydrogen . The simplest and probably best protection is a water filled U Tube installed between the engine and the device. ((This is from memory, so confirm this before trusting it,,,,Another way of providing protection is a orifice valve. A orifice smaller than a drill size of #74............and I Do Not Remember if this is for straight hydrogen or for hydrogen/oxygen mixture))

crossbones