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  #1  
Old 03-09-2007, 12:48 PM
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derherr65 derherr65 is offline
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The pros and cons of homemade biodiesel vs wvo.

The first person that says "do a search" dies.

From my all night reading, I'm trying to work up the pros and cons of homemade biodiesel vs wvo. Having not done either personally, I expect to miss some things. Please let me know what, and how it is important.

Category - Homemade Biodiesel / WVO

Collection - restaurants & chemical supply / restaurants
The WVO is gotten the same way for both, but biodiesel requires methanol(drag strip maybe?) and KOH from a chemical supplier... neither of which are free.
Processing - settle,filter,dewater,add chemicals,mix,separate / settle,filter,dewater
Making biodiesel is time consuming and involves hazzardous chemicals. You must do the same steps as running WVO then add on the conversion process and more separation. "It takes me less of my time to dewater and filter enough oil to run 3 cars and heat my house than it takes for me to produce enough biodiesel to run one car."(WD8CDH) Biodiesel also leaves you with glycerin to dispose of. Is glycerin good for anything?
Tanks - stock tank / 2 tanks
A second tank is needed for WVO and should be heated. In a truck a second tank isn't hard(toolbox tank) in a car it can be a PITA.
Fuel system - stock / complex
Biodiesel will eat a few lines and seals. For B100 new rubber or viton is a must. WVO will introduce solenoids, switches, and duplicate lines and filters increasing complexity and chance of breakage.
Operating - stock / monitor then switch
Biodiesel runs, for all practical purposes, just like diesel. WVO must be monitored until the proper temperature is reached then may be switched on. It must also be switched off before arrival. I personally rarely drive less than 30+ miles at a time, but short drives can severly limit WVO use.
If you screw up - Dead IP / Dead IP, carbon
Biodiesel can kill your IP by reducing lubrication(galling) while WVO can kill it by mechanical stress. Cold WVO can also cause carbon deposits in the combustion chamber.

It seems to me that WVO is cheaper per gallon, but has a higher install cost. This could be offset by the fact that homemade biodiesel is more time consuming and expensive to produce. In the long run WVO should be the cheaper solution. My goal is a fuel that is as safe for the car as diesel, as cheap as possible, and not too time consuming.
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  #2  
Old 03-09-2007, 01:17 PM
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In addition to the other contacts I've mentioned on the other forum check out Kugelsicher (Kugel) on info-pop.

I'll add that for me, viscosity plays a huge part. By thinning the WVO with the k-1 and RUG, I can get the viscosity so it flows as well as WVO that is heated to 160*
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Old 03-09-2007, 01:23 PM
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Wow, Sounds like you've done the research... What was the question? I am personally looking into biodiesel (home made) because I don't want to install a new tank and all of the other junk that goes with it. Also, I was (perhaps mistakenly) under the impression that B100 will run in a 7.3 without issues. Anyone have experience to contrary?
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Old 03-09-2007, 01:25 PM
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Checking to see that I didn't get something wrong, and looking for input from people actually making and using Bio and/or WVO.
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1977 F150 400 C6 2wd, 10.2 sec 1/8 mile with 2.75 gears.
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  #5  
Old 03-09-2007, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derherr65
Biodiesel can kill your IP by reducing lubrication(galling) while WVO can kill it by mechanical stress. Cold WVO can also cause carbon deposits in the combustion chamber.

Biodiesel has more lubrication than Diesel.

It seems to me that WVO is cheaper per gallon, but has a higher install cost. This could be offset by the fact that homemade biodiesel is more time consuming and expensive to produce. In the long run WVO should be the cheaper solution. My goal is a fuel that is as safe for the car as diesel, as cheap as possible, and not too time consuming.
WVO.... about 22 cents a gallon to filter and clean and Biodiesel is about $1.00 a gallon.
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Old 03-09-2007, 10:04 PM
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Ive burned 100 percent in my 7.3 and she loves it. Ive burned 100 percent wvo and she oks it. Ive burned waste oil filtered and she took a dump and told me how much she hated it. Ive got the injectors laying on the garage floor to show you how stupid I was for trying anything other than bio in my truck. Another local runs 100 bio and almost never changes his oil because it stays perfect honey colored. I dont want the carbon build up on my rings to blow my nice clean engine if I run waste veggie. No study has found that waste veggie or new veggie will allow a diesel engine to survive over (I cant remember) but say 200 thousand miles. I currently have 511,000 plus miles on my truck and have just finished my new bio plant. My original numbers calculated $0.94 per gallon to make with a methanol recovery process my second batch ends up being 46 cents. The Koh glycering is super good for the envirornment, grass, fertile, and feedstock up to 10 percent weight. Hope this helps.
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Old 03-10-2007, 07:22 AM
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Kennedyford,
Thats great info. Thanks alot. I am putting the feelers out now for wvo from local eateries. I am planning to start with a single tank reactor and work my way up as long as the oil supply continues. Anyone heating thier home with extra bio?
Bill
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Old 03-10-2007, 09:53 AM
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If you have a waste oil burner you can use bio or the glycerine. You can even make your own waste oil burner/ water heater.
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Old 03-10-2007, 10:11 AM
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You did make one mistake. Bio is actually a very good lubricant, it will not gall your IP.
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Old 03-10-2007, 10:25 AM
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huh, how is that a mistake?
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Old 03-10-2007, 01:17 PM
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Bio is a good lubricant if you get it right every time. If you ever get it wrong the excess alcohol or lye remove the lubrication leading to galling. Remember that's the "If you screw up"(aka when the s#!t hits the fan) result. If you do either perfectly every time then by definition there's no problem.
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1977 F150 400 C6 2wd, 10.2 sec 1/8 mile with 2.75 gears.
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Old 03-10-2007, 05:14 PM
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7.3 dont have injection pumps (mechanical) so that threw me off for a sec. I guess you can only screw this up if your inpatient. Just follow your own common sense and strict procedures. Heck a simple clock timer for mixing and microsoft outlook schedule on your computer for settling time would work wonders.
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Old 03-11-2007, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennedyford
Ive burned 100 percent in my 7.3 and she loves it. Ive burned 100 percent wvo and she oks it. Ive burned waste oil filtered and she took a dump and told me how much she hated it. Ive got the injectors laying on the garage floor to show you how stupid I was for trying anything other than bio in my truck. Another local runs 100 bio and almost never changes his oil because it stays perfect honey colored. I dont want the carbon build up on my rings to blow my nice clean engine if I run waste veggie. No study has found that waste veggie or new veggie will allow a diesel engine to survive over (I cant remember) but say 200 thousand miles. I currently have 511,000 plus miles on my truck and have just finished my new bio plant. My original numbers calculated $0.94 per gallon to make with a methanol recovery process my second batch ends up being 46 cents. The Koh glycering is super good for the envirornment, grass, fertile, and feedstock up to 10 percent weight. Hope this helps.
I have been following your progress making a BD Processor. Congrats on finishing it. I can't remember but I think you already posted pics. If not, would you? I am still in the build stage and might get some hints from you. I hate to keep bugging Fabman for answers. He has already gone beyond...I appreciate it. If that was your pics post, would you explain the barrels,system,heaters, and particularly the type tank to pull a vacuum on to recover glycerol. I'm a little concerned about explosive fumes. I have wired up gasoline refineries,storage,service stations, etc and always the biggest concern was a spark. Since we are using heaters and motors do you have any concerns? Hey Don, throw in your 2 cents also. Thanks a lot Tom
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Old 03-11-2007, 04:57 PM
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Hey Tom, No problem. Don aka Fab has been really busy so I will explain what I can. My pics were posted with directional arrows but I failed to explain.


Ok first off in my posted pics were the waste storage tank 330 gallons
I have a pump move 50 gallons and dump into my "hillbilly mixer"
Second, I have a pump move my premixed methaloxide mixture from its container not shown into the drum. This drum has a new heating element brazed into the lowes part of the barrel. I have a stove thermostat attatched to that that will preheat the oil to 150 degrees before I add the methaloxide. The electric motor that turns my outdrive has no points or outside regulator that can spark. The majority of the danger is the fumes during koh and methanol mixture as well as the moments before it is put into the oil. After its in the oil your out of danger. Its reacting inside the oil. I guess you could ignite the oil of you try.
After 1/2 to an hour of mixing I transfer the product from the bottom of the barrel through another brazed fitting, through the pump, spun through the hydrocyclone to seperate glycering and into the other 330 gal holding tank. Im still settling in conjuction with the hydrocyclone. My vacuum methanol recovery process was posted incorrectly and Fab helped me to change that. Now there is an advance seperation of methanol process coming and in developement. Unfortunately there has been some behind the scenes dishonesty with the dark side and wont be posted for some time. But vacuum is still a use or the heated still. I hope this helps.
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Old 03-12-2007, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derherr65
Biodiesel can kill your IP by reducing lubrication(galling) while WVO can kill it by mechanical stress. Cold WVO can also cause carbon deposits in the combustion chamber.
Biodiesel is a much better lubricant than petro diesel so this is an invalid point
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Old 03-12-2007, 11:30 AM
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