My son-in-law has suggested that it is a good idea to add a 4-1 mixture of a diesel "conditioner" and Marvel Mystery Oil to the fuel tank each time I refuel. He says the new low sulfur fuel has had some of its natural lubricants removed and it is good for the engine to add this mixture back in. He does this on his Dodge all the time. Any comments as to whether this would be an issue with the new F450 engine?
Diesel fuel has lubricity standards and the fuel is supposed to meet those.
If you are worried you might use an additive but beware of overtreatment and you should make sure any additive you use in the 6.4 Powerstroke is approved for the new emission standard engines.
Personally, we have had issues using additives in the past and won't use them again untill such time as we have problems not using them.
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2004 E-450 6.0 147,000 miles
7,500 mile, 15 quart oil changes, 5W-40 Rotella.
UOAs consist of checking for metal on drain plug magnet. All stock, no mods. Dyed fuel with no additives. Never been reflashed.
Total parts replaced;
one EGR valve, one turbo.
Last edited by origcharger; 02-28-2007 at 11:14 AM.
Alway add a good additivies, I use DK in every tank. I have 60k on the truck with no problem.
Ok, as a counterpoint we never use additives and have 70k on our 6.0 with no problem. And oh my god, we used dyed fuel.
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2004 E-450 6.0 147,000 miles
7,500 mile, 15 quart oil changes, 5W-40 Rotella.
UOAs consist of checking for metal on drain plug magnet. All stock, no mods. Dyed fuel with no additives. Never been reflashed.
Total parts replaced;
one EGR valve, one turbo.
Lots of folks in here use either Diesel Kleen (white bottle for cold seasons, gray bottle for warmer seasons) or Stanadyne. I personally have seen some performance improvements when using the DK gray bottle. I'm sticking with it for now.
if it does not meet the recommendations for the new 6.4 diesel, do not use it. if for some reason you develop a problem with the engine, and they find an additive in the fuel, they may be able to claim you voided the warranty of the engine with the additive.
i would check with ford before adding anything .
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Tom
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Ford has launched two new additives that work with the new 6.4L. The cetane boost and performance enhancer is part number PM22A. I'd use this as you know it is ok for their engine and don't have to worry about a future warranty issue they say is caused by a non-Ford additive.
You do need to use a sulphur free fuel additive for the 6.4. If the additive you are using has sulphur in it, the increase will cause the DPF to regenerate more often that it should, accumulate ash more rapidly and shorten it's life. It will also cause EGTs to be a bit higher than normal, but not as big of an issue as it's effect on the DPF. As for the pump fuel, the refineries do add lubricity back to the fuel before it hits the pumps, so don't lose any sleep if you forget your additive once in a while.
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I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me, than a full frontal lobotomy.
Older engines - additive yes- ; new engines (2000 +) additive not required or needed.
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red 04 F250 build date 04/04 6.0 PSD ,auto,cc, xlt ,sb, moon roof, 4X4, off road pkg, sports pkg., tow pkg,camper pkg,FX4, electric shift on fly
93 f350 7.3 , 5 speed manual, ext cab, long box 240K+ miles
1967 C700 farm truck
30 ft travel trailer
Vietnam Vet/ OS1 USN/USNR retired 26 years
B5 soydiesel user
Sirius radio
This has been and is going to be a big can of worms. I have a good friend that hauls fuel and has been for a long time and most of the fuel he hauls is to farmers, contruction guys, small local fleets and fillings stations locally owned.
The first bad thing is that don't assume that dyed no-tax fuel is the higher sulfer fuel. Alot of times we they get an order for offroad fuel there is none to get. Marine and train people have priority over that and sometimes their fuel depot runs out so they have to send out lowsulfer road fuel with no tax.
This fuel supplier, which is one we have all heard of, is adding a lubricity additive to the fuel when they get it from the refinery. With out it is bad news. They accidently ran some in on of their trucks,04 DT466E. It didn't get the tank burned out before it qiut running right. Siezed three injectors.
There is also a non-published to the public issue with the low sulfer fuel. There has been many cases where alot of engines are having a power loss and a drop in fuel miliage, up to 10%. We have seen it around here.
They have been trying different off the shelf additives to try to help out with this. Now I am not endorsing one over another or knocking any of them but he is telling me that Howes is doing the best. He was telling me that he is being told by people that they are 2 to 3 miles better on fuel milage with the Howes over the other brands.
Hey it is worth a shot. Try it. Fuel is high enough we need all the help we can get.
The people that do try it, post their results.
One other sour note. The fleet I help take care of now, no more dealership for me, seems to be have catilitic converter problem now since the change to low sulfer fuel. I am saying it is an additive causing it. What is happening is that the exhaust is letting off a real bad acidic fume that will make to sick. It started with drivers getting sick. It has happened on three trucks so far and they are medium duty trucks. Changed one out today. I took the converter-muffler off and you couldn't stand near it...?????. I am still working on this issue.
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79/83/86/95 F-??? 6.9 4speed
94 350 4x4 SRW 7.3 factory turbo
1930 Model A Original
My wife has three of her own.
Last edited by catfish101; 03-01-2007 at 12:13 AM.
The first bad thing is that don't assume that dyed no-tax fuel is the higher sulfer fuel. Alot of times we they get an order for offroad fuel there is none to get. Marine and train people have priority over that and sometimes their fuel depot runs out so they have to send out lowsulfer road fuel with no tax.
I also have many years experience pulling fuel tankers and I can confirm this. In fact some fuel terminals don't even have separate storage for dyed non-taxed fuel, they pull from the same tank as the on-road fuel and just inject the dye at the rack where the trucks are loaded.
I would also agree that Howes is the best additive I have used, but all my experience is with 18 wheelers so I don't know if this observation would be relevant to someone with a diesel pickup.
The following is a direct quote from my inquiry to the Ford Motor Company on the use of fuel additives in the 2008 Ford F-450:
"Our resources indicate that 2008 model year 6.4L Diesel Engines in Super Duty must use Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel (ULSD) (15ppm sulfur maximum). Low Sulfur, Non-Highway and Off-Road Diesel Fuels should not be used in these engines. Damage to the fuel injection system and exhaust catalyst can occur if an improper fuel is used. Moreover, the reduction in sulfur content will not hurt the lubrication characteristics of the new fuel. Therefore, no additives are required when using ULSD. Lubricity additives are added by fuel producers to ensure comparable levels of lubrication to current fuels."
Comments anyone? Should I take them at their word. Is there a hidden agenda?
The hidden agenda is not from Ford but rather everyone that sees the changeover as a way to sell you more additives.
__________________
2004 E-450 6.0 147,000 miles
7,500 mile, 15 quart oil changes, 5W-40 Rotella.
UOAs consist of checking for metal on drain plug magnet. All stock, no mods. Dyed fuel with no additives. Never been reflashed.
Total parts replaced;
one EGR valve, one turbo.
The following is a direct quote from my inquiry to the Ford Motor Company on the use of fuel additives in the 2008 Ford F-450:
"Our resources indicate that 2008 model year 6.4L Diesel Engines in Super Duty must use Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel (ULSD) (15ppm sulfur maximum). Low Sulfur, Non-Highway and Off-Road Diesel Fuels should not be used in these engines. Damage to the fuel injection system and exhaust catalyst can occur if an improper fuel is used. Moreover, the reduction in sulfur content will not hurt the lubrication characteristics of the new fuel. Therefore, no additives are required when using ULSD. Lubricity additives are added by fuel producers to ensure comparable levels of lubrication to current fuels."
Comments anyone? Should I take them at their word. Is there a hidden agenda?
This is a correct statement - this is why the new fuel was required. for the 08 models (thank you EPA). This is why all fuel pumps have tags on them saying what fuel is being dispensed.
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red 04 F250 build date 04/04 6.0 PSD ,auto,cc, xlt ,sb, moon roof, 4X4, off road pkg, sports pkg., tow pkg,camper pkg,FX4, electric shift on fly
93 f350 7.3 , 5 speed manual, ext cab, long box 240K+ miles
1967 C700 farm truck
30 ft travel trailer
Vietnam Vet/ OS1 USN/USNR retired 26 years
B5 soydiesel user
Sirius radio
Reducing the sulfur content does effect the lubricity. That is why the lubricity additives are required. The problem is that the lubricity additives are more important when ran in older motors. I heard today that there will probably be some class action law suits. I have heard, myself, from some farmers that are having issues and they are "blending" their own fuel.
__________________
79/83/86/95 F-??? 6.9 4speed
94 350 4x4 SRW 7.3 factory turbo
1930 Model A Original
My wife has three of her own.
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04 F-250 SD 6.0L XLT EC SB Black, May 04 build. Bypass filter for Oil & Coolant, Remote start, Pre-Post Luber, Scan Gauge, 46 gal fuel tank, Boost & Pyro.
