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Old 02-09-2007, 01:04 AM
aurgathor aurgathor is offline
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air as a "fuel"

We've discussed "water as a fuel", so it's time to see cars running on air, compressed air to be precise.
http://www.theaircar.com/
Not sure if they're real, or just blowing some hot air.

Production status

As of November 2006 the Air car is not in production; though they have been said to be going into production "soon" since at least 1998. It was, for example, announced to make its public debut in South Africa in 2002, or "within six months" in January 2004

Last edited by aurgathor; 02-09-2007 at 01:08 AM.
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Old 02-09-2007, 09:48 AM
jimandmandy jimandmandy is offline
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Looks more like a scheme to empty the pockets of potential investors. Ive seen countless "revolutionary" alternative engine designs come and go over the years, and the Wankel is the only one that ever went into "mass" production. It never came even close to replacing the piston engine as we know it.

As for the compressed air part, how much energy do you think can be stored in air tanks small and light enough to carry around in an automobile? The basic physics alone should tell you it wont work. Google PV=nRT.

Everyone in Europe and America wants to study business, law, marketing, etc. No one bothers to learn mathematics, science and enginering, except in India. The Western world is doomed.

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Old 02-09-2007, 10:29 AM
aladin sane aladin sane is offline
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Sorry, that won't work.

I thought air powered perpetual motion machines went out of style nearly 100 years ago. If I read the "technical" part of their engine page, they are describing the pistons as being able to both provide the driving force for the car, and compress air for the storage tank. If the pistons are driven by air from the tank, how can they power the car and pump more air into the tank?
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Old 02-09-2007, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimandmandy
Everyone in Europe and America wants to study business, law, marketing, etc. No one bothers to learn mathematics, science and enginering, except in India. The Western world is doomed.Jim
I'm sorry I can't agree with you here. I went to a very well know and respected private school in the midwest and got my degree in mechanical engineering. While there is a large number of asians in the program they are only 1/3 of the students max. I also work for an engineering outsource company that has grown from 10 employees to about 500 in the six years it has been open, and did nearly $50million in sales last year. We take over entire projects for our customers or just help them with specific tasks within their project. We work for many very large companies with our largest customers being Caterpillar, John Deere, Harley Davidson, Whirlpool, and American Truck Company. Of our approx 500 employees about 10% are asian and work primarily with analysis. Our owner found many years ago that because of differences in customs and beliefs it is not feasable for foriegners to do deisgn work for Americans. Our customers have begun to realize this as well. We were recently bought out by a much larger company that does similar work in the IT and Administration fields. We are in the process of opening offices in China and India in order to do design work for people in those respective areas, not for American goods. You will see in the next few years that while manufacturing jobs will continue to move out of the country engineering and designwork will stay here and grow.
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Old 02-09-2007, 04:03 PM
aurgathor aurgathor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimandmandy
Looks more like a scheme to empty the pockets of potential investors.
That was one of the thing that came to my mind.

Quote:
The basic physics alone should tell you it wont work. Google PV=nRT.
I think it can actually.work; so IMHO, the question is that can it work well enough to go on sale?

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Old 02-09-2007, 04:04 PM
aurgathor aurgathor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aladin sane
If the pistons are driven by air from the tank, how can they power the car and pump more air into the tank?
Somewhere there they were talking about regenerative braking.
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Old 02-09-2007, 06:50 PM
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I wouldn't trust any company that can't spell their own name. MDI is what? Moteur Developpment International. ah...French.

I don't think it would work to long. I can't see an engine refilling it's own source of power. There is loss of energy somewhere. Sort of like useing a battery to power an electric motor, that turns an alternator to charge the battery. Doesn't work.

The idea is a good one and reminds me of a steam engine, but I don't think it works yet.
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Old 02-09-2007, 09:02 PM
aurgathor aurgathor is offline
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I don't think it would work to long. I can't see an engine refilling it's own source of power. There is loss of energy somewhere.
Nowhere in there they promise a perpetuum mobile. However, they claim 13% recovery in the FAQ under "Brake power recovery"

In addition:
Quote:
The recharging of the car will be done at gas stations, once the market is developed. To fill the tanks it will take about to 2 to 3 minutes at a price of 1.5 euros. After refilling the car will be ready to driver 200 kilometres.
So, they claim 200 km out of "90 cubic metres of air compressed to 300 bars."
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Old 02-14-2007, 03:25 PM
homenf homenf is offline
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The english guy in the video sounds pretty happy about it. 120 miles on air is better than I thought it could do.
I think Chevron will buy the design, give it cement shoes and let it try to swim.
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Old 02-17-2007, 08:36 AM
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I think this design will be shown on Discovery Channel, Future cars part three.
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Old 02-21-2007, 12:38 AM
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Does any one consider the cost of compressing and storing that air that they filled up with? Compressed air is very expensive!
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Old 02-21-2007, 03:19 AM
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Expensive?!? Anyone can make it, just need a compressor, and possible a small storage tank, so the actual running cost is just the electricity for the motor that drives the compressor (you can drive it in other ways, but that's the simplest) and whatever maintenance is needed. Whether the fill-up would be as cheap as they predict on their website -- I do not know.
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Old 02-21-2007, 11:24 AM
aladin sane aladin sane is offline
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Since they need 300 bar, or just over 4400 psig, your shop compressor won't get the job done. It may cost a little more than you are thinking.
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Old 02-21-2007, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aladin sane
Since they need 300 bar, or just over 4400 psig, your shop compressor won't get the job done. It may cost a little more than you are thinking.
That's why I wrote "running cost".

Obviously, for a car like this to be viable, they need a cheap, or at least reasonably priced fuel, and what compressed air may cost right now has little relevance since fill up stations will most likely make their own, using electricity. The 1.5 euro for a fill-up seems a bit low, however.
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Old 02-21-2007, 04:17 PM
aladin sane aladin sane is offline
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I think your post completely glossed over how much a compressor that will put out 4000 psig and a pressure vessel to hold it will cost. The "running costs" will be small in comparison.
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Old 02-21-2007, 04:17 PM
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