Dual Battery configuaration and placement
#1
01-26-2007, 11:16 AM
Dual Battery configuaration and placement
Okay, I'll fess up. I get an idea, I research it, and then I have to pay someone to make it happen. I was looking at putting a second battery in my 94 Chateau Club wagon. I found an outfit called Hellroaring. They suggest a set up using the Optima yellow top, as the starting battery, and my existing starting battery as the secondary. I run a dvd player and a laptop computer off the cigarette lighters. I'm just about to put driving lights and auxillary back up light on my van. What's the opinions of this suggested set up and where are people putting the second battery? I would like to keep it out of the van interior.
Thanks
Thanks
Consider this installation suggestion:
Suppose you install a super combination deep cycle/starting battery such as an Optima Yellow top as your starting battery (It is rated for deep cycle use, yet it has plenty of cranking power - 750 CCA.) Then install, in your vehicle, a regular starting battery as a spare backup battery isolated with a Hellroaring BIC-75300A configured for high current. With this setup, you don't need isolation tobic75300 -small.JPG (10033 bytes) your trailer or house battery. You will always have a spare capable of cranking your engine! If your house loads drain your starting (deep cycle) battery, you can, with the simple flip of a micro-switch, crank your gasoline engine (You will need two units in parallel for a Diesel Engine.) An added benefit to this system is that you will gain battery capacity by the amount of your main battery. This will add life span to your batteries because you will not need to discharge either one as deeply than as with a single battery. With this setup, you will need less circuit breakers, less hardware, less space, and will receive more security.
Sure, there are less expensive individual isolation products available. But, none stack up to all the benefits that the BIC-75300A is capable of. After considering all the parts and labor needed to perform the same functions, We believe this setup is one of the simplest, most convenient to use, most reliable, most economical and practical system available for Tow Vehicle applications.
Here is one very nice benefit from this setup. If you use your tow vehicle in cold climates, then you can have double the cranking power when you need it the most as the temperature drops to below -10F. There is no need to even get out of the vehicle nor open the hood! Simply flip a micro-switch on the dashboard and you are on your way! We believe that this is one of the very best setups available!
With this setup, we believe that you do not need isolation between the trailer battery and main battery for two reasons. 1) You will have the backup starting capability, and 2) The trailer battery usually is not connected all the time. However, if you feel you must have isolation here in addition to having the backup capability, it is very simple to add a BIC-75150A between the alternator and trailer battery or in the trailer itself as described above.
If your application is extreme such that you want multiple and different isolated batteries/loads, you can add a BIC-75150A for each battery bank in addition to the BIC-75300A backup.
Suppose you install a super combination deep cycle/starting battery such as an Optima Yellow top as your starting battery (It is rated for deep cycle use, yet it has plenty of cranking power - 750 CCA.) Then install, in your vehicle, a regular starting battery as a spare backup battery isolated with a Hellroaring BIC-75300A configured for high current. With this setup, you don't need isolation tobic75300 -small.JPG (10033 bytes) your trailer or house battery. You will always have a spare capable of cranking your engine! If your house loads drain your starting (deep cycle) battery, you can, with the simple flip of a micro-switch, crank your gasoline engine (You will need two units in parallel for a Diesel Engine.) An added benefit to this system is that you will gain battery capacity by the amount of your main battery. This will add life span to your batteries because you will not need to discharge either one as deeply than as with a single battery. With this setup, you will need less circuit breakers, less hardware, less space, and will receive more security.
Sure, there are less expensive individual isolation products available. But, none stack up to all the benefits that the BIC-75300A is capable of. After considering all the parts and labor needed to perform the same functions, We believe this setup is one of the simplest, most convenient to use, most reliable, most economical and practical system available for Tow Vehicle applications.
Here is one very nice benefit from this setup. If you use your tow vehicle in cold climates, then you can have double the cranking power when you need it the most as the temperature drops to below -10F. There is no need to even get out of the vehicle nor open the hood! Simply flip a micro-switch on the dashboard and you are on your way! We believe that this is one of the very best setups available!
With this setup, we believe that you do not need isolation between the trailer battery and main battery for two reasons. 1) You will have the backup starting capability, and 2) The trailer battery usually is not connected all the time. However, if you feel you must have isolation here in addition to having the backup capability, it is very simple to add a BIC-75150A between the alternator and trailer battery or in the trailer itself as described above.
If your application is extreme such that you want multiple and different isolated batteries/loads, you can add a BIC-75150A for each battery bank in addition to the BIC-75300A backup.
#2
01-26-2007, 08:00 PM
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That's pretty much the setup I installed in my 2003 E350, from the Optima Yellow (the van has an Optima Red for starting...) to the Hellroaring BIC. It's worked very well for two years. I put the extra battery under the body on the frame where it would normally go if Ford had done the deed. No failures, no problems.
#3
01-27-2007, 07:54 AM
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I don't know about the '94, so much, but my 90 had a nice place for one on the driver's side; all I had to do was put in the battery tray, which I bought at Oh really's.
my battery isolater was a wal-mart $25 unit, and I simply wired in a standard Ford starter solenoid so when I hit the key it jumps over to help the other battery out. BOTH my batteries are identical to what I use in my Supercrewzer with 1000 cca apiece, so just in case I need them they're available. The second batt in my van runs my 1500w inverter when I need it, a portable TV, cooler, and various other items. My Trailer Batteries are marine deep-cycle, and when it's connected the secondary circuit charges them, but they're on the trailer, not in the van.
my battery isolater was a wal-mart $25 unit, and I simply wired in a standard Ford starter solenoid so when I hit the key it jumps over to help the other battery out. BOTH my batteries are identical to what I use in my Supercrewzer with 1000 cca apiece, so just in case I need them they're available. The second batt in my van runs my 1500w inverter when I need it, a portable TV, cooler, and various other items. My Trailer Batteries are marine deep-cycle, and when it's connected the secondary circuit charges them, but they're on the trailer, not in the van.
#4
01-27-2007, 03:34 PM
My van 04 E350 came with a second (deep cycle) battery in a box attached at the frame rail on the pass side. Although it is not used to start the van, it was meant for trailer towing. I connected a thick hot lead from that second battery and ran it up in to the van where I am in process of setting up an aux. fuse block to run my lap top, dvd screens, additional power ports, etc.. According to Fords diagram, this second battery receives a charge after the main starting battery is complete. and there is no way to discharge the main battery by putting a load on this second battery. Even better, the diesel vans came with two spare batteries in that frame rail tray. Imagine swapping them out for two ultima yellow's!
#5
02-01-2007, 01:30 AM
A starter solenoid is a poor choice to link it up, they are not designed for constant duty, you need the ones that are, mine is hooked up that way, it's switched on VIA an ignition wire. Deep cycle batteries are a poor choice, they are not built for charging at high amperage by the alternator, they need trickle charged, takes hours, the fast charging causes premature failure. I've gone though 2 deep cycle batteries before replacing it with a conventional one, I'm not sure if the Optima is different in this. I'd love a sealed battery like the Optima's, but they are costly.
#6
02-01-2007, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by maples01
A starter solenoid is a poor choice to link it up, they are not designed for constant duty, you need the ones that are, mine is hooked up that way, it's switched on VIA an ignition wire. Deep cycle batteries are a poor choice, they are not built for charging at high amperage by the alternator, they need trickle charged, takes hours, the fast charging causes premature failure. I've gone though 2 deep cycle batteries before replacing it with a conventional one, I'm not sure if the Optima is different in this. I'd love a sealed battery like the Optima's, but they are costly.
The starter solenoid is ONLY to link during STARTS, not constant duty, as an "assistant" to the starter battery.
for extended loads independent of the ignition (like for keeping my cooler running, etc.) a deep cycle is not only OK, it is preferred, as they are built to TAKE a deep drain and recharging. again, 3 of them get used this way between my camping trailer and second battery in the van. Running standard automotive batteries thru such cycles is what causes premature failure.
Again, maybe my experience is only a fluke, eh?
I used to own property way off the power grid in the california desert, and rather than try to bring a generator and enough gas for it, I had my little cabin wired for 12 volt. I was not about to leave an expensive photovoltaic setup out there for thieves and vandals so I carried SIX deep cycle batteries in my pickup, all wired in to be charged by my 100 amp alternator. For the ten years I ran out there on weekends, those six batteries held up just fine.
#7
02-01-2007, 04:19 PM
Deep cycle is the only way to go in the camping type use, where you will be drawing them down a lot, conventional battries will fail, but fast charging on a daily basis, like a van that is driven frequently will kill them, I've gone through this myself. I'm bringing this up for those who are reading this and planning to use the deep cycle batteries in their vans and hook up to it's charging system, daily driving, you seem to be forgetting how many read these forums. I am on a van forum where hany have been customizing vans for years, many started in the 70's, they have done the starter solenoid isolator and deep cycle charging from the van, the end results were failure. Constant duty solenoids are a must for an everyday application and conventional battery, but if you're looking for an actual way to run equipment for long periods without the engine running, a deep cycle is the only way to go, but trickel charged by a charger designed for them, takes long periods of time. You don't drive enough to charge one deep cycle in your vehicle unless you are on a trip, you'll still be required to put a charger on it, fast charging burns them up, I have 4 years experience with 2 deep cycle batteries before finally taking the hint. Been around the use of deep cycle batteries on dads boat for 30 years, WTF do you think the reason they don't hook them into the charging system on boats for, when they do now there is a device that only allows a trickle charge, guess they haven't got a clue on what they're doing.
You could be getting by with it due to the fact it's got 6 batteries to charge at once.
You could be getting by with it due to the fact it's got 6 batteries to charge at once.
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#8
02-02-2007, 11:43 AM
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#9
02-02-2007, 03:31 PM
It only damages the deep cycle batteries, yet the guys I talked with that found that it's not worth it to hook the deep cycles on the vehicles charging system have stock alternators. We found with the boat, the deep cycle batteries last longer when trickle charged, not jammed in fast, yet I see electric cars and such with different batteries than the store bought deep cycle that have water in them. When we topped them off, we didn't use tap water, so calcium deposits wasn't the cause of failure.
I see so many tieing the Optima deep cycle into their vehicles charging system, I've wonded how they hold up, I'd like a sealed battery to replace my rear one, maybe use 2, but they are far to costly for me to try and end up in failure.
You guys are likely talking about a different type battery than the water filled ones you get in stores, they aren't used in those electric vehicles and stuff, they have a sealed system. I'm just trying to get this out because many will misunderstand and try to use one from Walmart. I've not had the chance to check out the Optima, too costly, guys browsing this may think the same.
I see so many tieing the Optima deep cycle into their vehicles charging system, I've wonded how they hold up, I'd like a sealed battery to replace my rear one, maybe use 2, but they are far to costly for me to try and end up in failure.
You guys are likely talking about a different type battery than the water filled ones you get in stores, they aren't used in those electric vehicles and stuff, they have a sealed system. I'm just trying to get this out because many will misunderstand and try to use one from Walmart. I've not had the chance to check out the Optima, too costly, guys browsing this may think the same.
#10
02-02-2007, 10:02 PM
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EVERY Battery lasts longer if it is trickle charged. If you try to only charge it via your alternator, it will fail sooner. The ONE that is in my van has my 12V cooler hooked to it continuously from start to finish of my trip and also handles my 1500w inverter when needed. Now, I do have enough of a head on my shoulders that I do NOT use the deep cycle battery in the primary circuit. Twice I have tried to explain that the DEEP CYCLE battery is NOT connected to the main system except for the brief moment of startup, and THAT is the only reason for the additional starter relay. I use a esonix battery isolater for the deep cycle battery. Now, were it to show signs of premature failing, I could simply wire in a diode that would cut the amps delivered to that battery, but it hasn't done that. I don't work with marine apps, and am not going to pretend to know the ins and outs of why they do what they do or don't do. I just know what I have been doing since 1979, off and on.
I understand how you are trying to clarify this for others. Just don't denegrate the input of people who DO work with these things on a regular basis.
I understand how you are trying to clarify this for others. Just don't denegrate the input of people who DO work with these things on a regular basis.
#11
02-02-2007, 10:27 PM
I'm not trying to take away from your posts, just pointing out to those who may think it will work the way I've said, I was one of those people, hell, the handicap shop that rigged it up did it, do them all that way.
BTW, what's the since of choosing a sealed or jelled deep cycle verse one that has the plates in water, other than the fact they don't release hydrogen gas during the charge cycle?
BTW, what's the since of choosing a sealed or jelled deep cycle verse one that has the plates in water, other than the fact they don't release hydrogen gas during the charge cycle?
#12
02-02-2007, 10:44 PM
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I haven't spent much time with the sealed or gelcells... except as a user. I do seem to recall that size is the biggy, needing a larger sealed to handle the amps a lead/acid battery would, plus cost. If you have to live WITH the battery (like inside your vehicle or other closed environment) you are MUCH better off with the more more expensive alternative. Plus the gelcells recharge more readily, even if they have been drained for a mild extended period. (The longer you leave a lead-acid battery drained, the harder it is to charge, and sometimes downright impossible, due to lead getting saturated.)
#13
06-17-2010, 08:26 PM
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Sorry for digging up an old post. I'm searching and posting from phone so it's difficult. I have a '92 E350 7.5L. I want to install an aux batt. I believe the van had one. There is an aux batt relay to the left of the left head lamp (viewed from the front).
Where would the + from the aux go? I see 3 post and assume the main post that has the + from the main battery. Also does the OEM relay allow the aux batt to assist in engine start? Also can the system be modified so the only one batt powers the interior when the key is off, I have an autistic son who's favorite thing to do is flip on all the interior lights. With all 9 of them on I don't have juice to start after 10 minutes. It would be nice to have an isolated batt that would still be charged.
Where would the + from the aux go? I see 3 post and assume the main post that has the + from the main battery. Also does the OEM relay allow the aux batt to assist in engine start? Also can the system be modified so the only one batt powers the interior when the key is off, I have an autistic son who's favorite thing to do is flip on all the interior lights. With all 9 of them on I don't have juice to start after 10 minutes. It would be nice to have an isolated batt that would still be charged.
#14
06-17-2010, 09:19 PM
I replaced all of my interior bulbs with LEDs, they have then to go in the original fixtures, I've left them on over night before with little to no effect to my battery. The relay you are viewing is likely the starter relay, dual battery vans are NOT isolated, they simply hook them together pos to pos cable. My handicap conversion added an isolated battery VIA my request, it's in a box in the rear, it hooks to the factory battery's pos terminal through a relay, the relay is engaged by a tap into my ignition switch.
