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Are we reaching the point already that US ethanol production is causing people to starve? This was on a radio newscast, so I dont have a link. It was stated that in Mexico, corn prices have gone up so much that people are having trouble affording the staple "bread", corn tortillas. It was stated that ethanol production here is the cause of the price spike. What we dont need is still more pressure on our southern border from this. E85 is not the solution to air pollution anyway, more of a farm subsidy and a way for automakers to get around CAFE standards.
I heard about that. NAFTA allowed free trade, Mexico allowed US corn in cheap, ran their own domestic farmers into bankruptcy so they all quit and moved up here. Now the demand for ethanol has tripled the price of corn causing a shortage in Mexico. We are the OPEC of corn for Mexico!!!
Yeah... So they have to find something other to eat than corn. Now Mexican farmers will be able to profit again. No reason they need to starve.
If you're going to argue this then you may as well argue that the population of the earth is unsustainable. When the oil runs out the real fun begins, as there wont be enough energy to go around and / or feed everybody, and the population will be many orders of magnitude greater than the carrying capacity of the earth. And the repercussions of this is a *much* more disturbing thought than E85...
Yep, a shame farmers can finally make a profit without subsidation... Amazing, with the corn still piled on the ground for lack of space to store it, that we can show a shortage. Brazill raises plenty of corn as well... and yet they have the highest level of ethanol production too, although they use sugar cane more. Guess they will have to just use flour tortillas... like everyone else in the world, they will have to adapt. I find it hard to believe they don't have anything else they can eat.
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Keep personal attacks, to other nationalities, out of this ...or it is closed.
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I watched something on the history channel last night where a power plant in Arizona or New Mexico was working on a project to reclaim the CO2 and H2O gaseous emissions that would otherwise be emitted as greenhouse gases. They would then feed the CO2 and H2O mixture through some algae growing tanks, where photosynthesis converted the CO2 back to oxygen. The algae could be periodically harvested, which could be distilled to make ethanol, then what was left after distillation could be used for cattle feed. My point is, ethanol does not have to be made from corn. That's what everyone is pushing right now, but with further research, other methods should become easier and cheaper. There are also ways that use the byproducts of food corn, such as the husks and the cob, to make ethanol.
Corn, for the moment, is the source of choice because it is relatively cheap and available. It by no means is the best source, and as the technology comes available and financially viable, it will be replaced. The corn itself is not wasted only on ethanol, it STILL produces food products for people and cattle. Hogs are the only thing that do not do as well on the byproducts, they still need the complete kernel. Cattle do well on the gluten, which is the leftover after the starch is removed in making ethanol and sweetener and such.
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the workhorse:86 F250 4x4 6.9 Diesel 4-spd, 4.10 axles
the other workhorse 92 F350 2wd crew cab,3.55 rear axle, 92 6bt Cummins, NV4500
the project: 78 F150 4x4 shortbed 351 auto Iowa Chapter leader, ASE certified parts specialist
Come on down and join us in the Iowa chapter, or your own local chapter!! Thanks, Roger
Actually gluten is the protien fraction of the corn kernal, and at least in the wet mill process it is removed before the fermentation process begins. What cows eat that the pigs can't is the corn fiber. It is the outside shell of the corn kernal.
Well, they call it gluten when they deliver it, so unless the companies don't know what to call it, that is what they deliver. See a lot of kernels in their droppings too, hull and all.
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the workhorse:86 F250 4x4 6.9 Diesel 4-spd, 4.10 axles
the other workhorse 92 F350 2wd crew cab,3.55 rear axle, 92 6bt Cummins, NV4500
the project: 78 F150 4x4 shortbed 351 auto Iowa Chapter leader, ASE certified parts specialist
Come on down and join us in the Iowa chapter, or your own local chapter!! Thanks, Roger
There was another show the same evening:
Modern Marvels: Renewable Energy.
Interesting ratios on energy in/out for corn, sugar cane, and switchgrass. See if you can catch it some time.
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the workhorse:86 F250 4x4 6.9 Diesel 4-spd, 4.10 axles
the other workhorse 92 F350 2wd crew cab,3.55 rear axle, 92 6bt Cummins, NV4500
the project: 78 F150 4x4 shortbed 351 auto Iowa Chapter leader, ASE certified parts specialist
Come on down and join us in the Iowa chapter, or your own local chapter!! Thanks, Roger
Seems all the ag communtiy is misguided on the name...
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the workhorse:86 F250 4x4 6.9 Diesel 4-spd, 4.10 axles
the other workhorse 92 F350 2wd crew cab,3.55 rear axle, 92 6bt Cummins, NV4500
the project: 78 F150 4x4 shortbed 351 auto Iowa Chapter leader, ASE certified parts specialist
Come on down and join us in the Iowa chapter, or your own local chapter!! Thanks, Roger
Since the gluten products listed under wet milling products (and none of the dry milling products have the word gluten in them) are used to feed swine, I don't think the product you are talking about that is for cattle only is gluten.
I see you are going back to school to become and engineer. Good for you. I am a chemical engineer at one of the corn wet millers in Cedar Rapids.
Last edited by aladin sane; 01-26-2007 at 02:34 PM.
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