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Old 01-16-2007, 01:11 PM
AndysFords AndysFords is offline
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Exclamation Bio Question

DOes biodiesel have to be warm to seperate. We haven't had any problems until it got cold and we can't get it to react.
Also what does the fuel look like with too much lye and what does it look like with not enough lye.
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Old 01-26-2007, 02:34 AM
Murphy2000 Murphy2000 is offline
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When you ask "does it need to be warm to seperate", if you are talking about the reactor, yes.. Optimal reactions take place at about 130 degF.
Trying to react biodiesel in a cold reactor is like trying to bake a cake without an oven.

Visiual inspection of a batch of fuel is pretty much useless unless something obvious is wrong. There are home-brew quality checks that can be performed and should be performed on every batch you make.
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Old 01-26-2007, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndysFords
DOes biodiesel have to be warm to seperate. We haven't had any problems until it got cold and we can't get it to react.
Also what does the fuel look like with too much lye and what does it look like with not enough lye.
"chilling" AFTER mixing actually helps the settling process. I use a mix temp of about 145 deg, and it mixes instantly, and the reaction is finished within 30 min.

If you use too much Lye you will get "foam" on top of the bio, this is soap.
If you use too little Lye you will not get a complete reaction, and the mix looks kind of "mocha" color, and will not separate
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Old 01-26-2007, 03:51 PM
Murphy2000 Murphy2000 is offline
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Originally Posted by fabmandelux
"chilling" AFTER mixing actually helps the settling process.
Umm.. NO it doesnt.

If we are talking apples and apples, that is, the process of settling glycerin after the reaction then keeping the mix insulated and warmed will help the glycerin settle faster.

This has been proved in both theorey and practice.

Settling of wash water follows the same rules.

Injection of a 5% pre-wash technique can reduce glycerin settling times to less than 2 hours. My glycerin settles in about 30 minutes but I give it a minimum of 2 hours just to be sure.
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Old 01-26-2007, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy2000
Umm.. NO it doesnt.

If we are talking apples and apples, that is, the process of settling glycerin after the reaction then keeping the mix insulated and warmed will help the glycerin settle faster.

This has been proved in both theorey and practice.

Settling of wash water follows the same rules.
Aaaaa.... YES it can. I've seen the results from the University of Idaho, and tried it myself. BUT it is not cost effective.

And I NEVER mix water with my fuel.
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Old 01-26-2007, 10:58 PM
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Well I've timed it myself and glycerin settles faster when the liquid is kept warm.

The reason is that the viscosity is lower (thinner fuel) allowing the particles to sink to the bottom quicker.
It makes sense too.

Please post a link to the Idaho results.
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Old 01-26-2007, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabmandelux
Aaaaa.... YES it can. I've seen the results from the University of Idaho, and tried it myself. BUT it is not cost effective.

And I NEVER mix water with my fuel.
and your intones about "NEVER" mix water with my fuel suggest some kind of fault with water washing. I'm anxious to hear why.

Got a photo of your setup?
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Old 01-27-2007, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy2000
Well I've timed it myself and glycerin settles faster when the liquid is kept warm.

The reason is that the viscosity is lower (thinner fuel) allowing the particles to sink to the bottom quicker.
It makes sense too.

Please post a link to the Idaho results.
I cannot post a link, because this study is not "online", I saw it in person. I have access to there complete files going back 25+ years, but only about 25 percent is online. I'm going back there in about a month for further training on their GC equipment [which is the same as mine], I will try and copy the study then if I have time.
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Old 01-27-2007, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy2000
and your intones about "NEVER" mix water with my fuel suggest some kind of fault with water washing. I'm anxious to hear why.

Got a photo of your setup?
Do a search of posts in this forum, and you'll find plenty of discussions about water washing.

There are pictures of my "old" processor in my gallery. The "new" plant will be ready in about 60 days, and will produce 100 gallons per hour, With absolutely NO water used.
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Last edited by fabmandelux; 01-27-2007 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 01-27-2007, 08:56 AM
willbd willbd is offline
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water washing

Reduction of the water-soluble contaminants, traditionally, is accomplished by water-washing the biodiesel. However, according to Bertram, the era of the biodiesel water-wash may be gradually ending. “The water-wash method does nothing to remove the water-insoluble impurities,”

quote from this link. http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/art...article_id=239
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  #11  
Old 01-27-2007, 09:03 AM
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[QUOTE=willbd]Reduction of the water-soluble contaminants, traditionally, is accomplished by water-washing the biodiesel. However, according to Bertram, the era of the biodiesel water-wash may be gradually ending. “The water-wash method does nothing to remove the water-insoluble impurities,”

quote from this link. http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/article.jsp?article_id=239[/QUOTE]


Good for you Will! This is exactly what I'm talking about............And I've been saying it for 3 YEARS! NO water = Better fuel!
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  #12  
Old 01-27-2007, 11:47 AM
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This is actually a link to the whole article: http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/art...%20wash&page=1
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  #13  
Old 01-27-2007, 01:23 PM
Murphy2000 Murphy2000 is offline
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Magnesol is nothing more than talcum powder with a more course grain size.

For those folks who think its "Better" than water, you don't know what you are talking about, OR, you're using the new technique as a sales gimmick for some reason.

Yes, the water-less wash using talcum powder works. It does not work any better than regular water does as the final product is concerned.

The bottom line is "Does the fuel meet or exceed the ASTM standard".

Both techniques have drawbacks and the technique that is used should be dependant upon your location and or circumstance.

For those people short on water supply and or who lack the ability to dispose of the wash water, magnesol (talcum powder) is a viable alternative.

For those people with lots of water and no problems disposing of it, using talcum powder is a waste of time and money. (and filters)

Please do not attempt to turn biodiesel into some magical processes that says "Do it my way or your fuel is crap".. There are many ways to make high quality biodiesel. There are many techniques that have been developed and have been proved to work through ASTM testing.

The technique you should use to make your biodiesel should depend on your circumstances. To employ one technique over another based on what someone else is doing in a different location, is just plan ignorant.

When I make furnace fuel, I don't even bother to wash my fuel.. Why should I? Then again when I put fuel into a 2006 DuraMax, I make sure that fuel will meet the ASTM spec.

Most people who make biodiesel barely know what they are doing. I've seen setups with 500 and 1000 gallon tanks turning out lots and lots of fuel. The guy running it was using 7.8g/liter of KOH for a base. What a JOKE!

Anyhow, like I said, your process should depend on your circumstances.. not what product one peddler is pushing over another.

And if you're interested, there is a new"er" way to remove soap and meth from the biodiesel without using water or talc.
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Old 01-27-2007, 01:23 PM
 
 
 
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