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Old 01-15-2007, 11:13 AM
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Arrow WVO or Biodiesel?

For those trying to decide whether to use WVO or biodiesel. Please have a look at this study. Until I see a study that counters these studies, I'll stick with biodiesel. And yes, I've read all the studies quoted in this one. They all say the same, WVO will work in the SHORT TERM, but show negative LONG term results.

We all have to make the decision ourselves, BUT we should be making INFORMED decisions.

http://www.electricitybook.com/bio01...-wvo-study.pdf

Edit: This is Kennedyfords fault...............He called me yesterday, and got me to thinking about it!
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Last edited by fabmandelux; 01-15-2007 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 01-15-2007, 01:52 PM
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test with fish oil

http://www.uaf.edu/aetdl/fishoilassu...l-steigers.pdf

Fabman,

All the testing in the 80's were using SVO or blends of SVO without heating the SVO. We know this will cause early engine failure.

Read the link above about using fish ion in Alaska.

Bryan
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Old 01-15-2007, 02:36 PM
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I think part of his point is if you are gonna do SVO DO IT RIGHT. Take the time to convert your truck so you have heated fuel.

Another point made inj the cited study is the reduced power attained with VO because of the lower BTU output. Yes you'll be able to tow that 10K fiver but the truck will work harder to do so.

BTW those are not my conclusions, it is the consensus conclusion reached by various researchers
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phydeaux88
I think part of his point is if you are gonna do SVO DO IT RIGHT. Take the time to convert your truck so you have heated fuel.

Another point made inj the cited study is the reduced power attained with VO because of the lower BTU output. Yes you'll be able to tow that 10K fiver but the truck will work harder to do so.

BTW those are not my conclusions, it is the consensus conclusion reached by various researchers
My point was the study data is for unheated SVO and is a little misleading.
I agree there is no long term data on heated SVO and anyone running SVO in a heated system is taking a chance. Running SVO unheated the risk are greater than I would take with my truck.

The Alaska fish oil study is the best longer term study I can find. The engine manufacture is the one performing this test and they can not find any issues with the 50/50 blend of fish oil and Diesel.

Both Biodiesel and SVO have less BTU's than Diesel.

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/ageng/machine/ae1240w.htm

Data below is from the above link.

Lbs./gal. BTU/gal.

No. 2 diesel 7.05 140,000 48 3.0
100% Biodiesel (B100)
Methyl or ethyl ester 7.3 130,000 55 5.7
B20 mix (20/80) 7.1 138,000 50 3.3
Raw vegetable oil 7.5 130,000 35 to 45 40 to 50
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willbd
My point was the study data is for unheated SVO and is a little misleading.
I agree there is no long term data on heated SVO and anyone running SVO in a heated system is taking a chance. Running SVO unheated the risk are greater than I would take with my truck.
Yes all the data cited in the study (it is actually a literature survey) Fab posted was done with unheated oil; however, the survey clearly states that using heated VO for fuel seemed to reduce the problems associated with VO.
We seem to have the same point of view: using heated VO probably safe, using unheated VO will most likely trash your engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willbd
The Alaska fish oil study is the best longer term study I can find. The engine manufacture is the one performing this test and they can not find any issues with the 50/50 blend of fish oil and Diesel.
Very interesting but the oceans are already overfished and thus not a good source of fuel oil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willbd
Both Biodiesel and SVO have less BTU's than Diesel.
Granted but the higher Cetane rating of BD tends to compensate for the lower BTUs
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Old 01-15-2007, 08:12 PM
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[quote=willbd]
I agree there is no long term data on heated SVO and anyone running SVO in a heated system is taking a chance. [/QUOTE]


Exactly my point! Remember..........I said an "informed decision".................I've read the posts about buying trucks for $750, then drive them on WVO till they die, and it only cost you pennies! Those people scare me..............Most diesel owners have a ton of $$$$$ in their Trucks and a lot of pride [ or they''d own a gasser ]

All the information possible should be looked at before using any fuel, even biodiesel, only then can you make a $10,000 Gamble.........................
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Old 01-15-2007, 08:25 PM
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[quote=fabmandelux]
Quote:
Originally Posted by willbd
I agree there is no long term data on heated SVO and anyone running SVO in a heated system is taking a chance. [/QUOTE]


Exactly my point! Remember..........I said an "informed decision".................I've read the posts about buying trucks for $750, then drive them on WVO till they die, and it only cost you pennies! Those people scare me..............Most diesel owners have a ton of $$$$$ in their Trucks and a lot of pride [ or they''d own a gasser ]

All the information possible should be looked at before using any fuel, even biodiesel, only then can you make a $10,000 Gamble.........................
Fabman,

I agree with you about cost only pennies thing... but it's not my truck.
I only know you by your writings on this forum but I believe that you are here just to help inform the rest of us. I am looking forward to the day that I meet you in person.

Bryan
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Old 01-15-2007, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phydeaux88
Yes all the data cited in the study (it is actually a literature survey) Fab posted was done with unheated oil; however, the survey clearly states that using heated VO for fuel seemed to reduce the problems associated with VO.
We seem to have the same point of view: using heated VO probably safe, using unheated VO will most likely trash your engine.


Very interesting but the oceans are already overfished and thus not a good source of fuel oil.



Granted but the higher Cetane rating of BD tends to compensate for the lower BTUs
I agree with the over fishing but the fish oil is a waste by product of making fish meal. It's wrong to kill fish just for oil production. If you have a waste by product and can turn it into a fuel like running WVO or Biodiesel made from WVO we are saving energy.

I agree it's probably safe. I don't know for sure. I am one of the many that is trying it.
I took a 3400 mile vacation with the family using WVO. Talk about rolling the dice. If the truck broke down because of running WVO I would have never heard the end of it from the wife and kids.

Bryan
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Old 01-15-2007, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willbd
I agree with the over fishing but the fish oil is a waste by product of making fish meal. It's wrong to kill fish just for oil production. If you have a waste by product and can turn it into a fuel like running WVO or Biodiesel made from WVO we are saving energy.
Hmmmm didn't realize it was a waste product.
Looks like another feed stock source to add to the mix so folks will stop worrying that we "can't raise enuff corn".

Quote:
Originally Posted by willbd
I took a 3400 mile vacation with the family using WVO. Talk about rolling the dice. If the truck broke down because of running WVO I would have never heard the end of it from the wife and kids.
Now that's scarry especially the part about giving that sort of ammo to the wife
If she is anything like mine you would be reminded about it for years and years and years ............
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Last edited by Phydeaux88; 01-15-2007 at 11:11 PM.
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Old 01-16-2007, 09:00 AM
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The whole reason for my posting this thread was to get people to do more research BEFORE they jump one way or another! To just "jump-in" because "my buddy hasn't had any problems" seems irresponsible to me. Most of us want to get as much use as we can from our trucks before we have to spend another $40,000 + on a replacement.


And then there is the "wife thing"
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Old 01-16-2007, 09:00 AM
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