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Old 12-11-2006, 03:36 PM
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Phydeaux88 Phydeaux88 is offline
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Fab Input Requested

Fabman

I am considering going to an open processor, such as yours, and starting a coop as I increase production capacity.

Your thoughts on the matter and any "How To Do It" ideas would help.
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Old 12-11-2006, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phydeaux88
Fabman

I am considering going to an open processor, such as yours, and starting a coop as I increase production capacity.

Your thoughts on the matter and any "How To Do It" ideas would help.

My thoughts on this.....................GREAT!!

I'm here to help, and very soon we'll have you making bio too!

First some questions......What will be your feedstock? How much would you like to start with? If your going to use WVO you'll need to get an average titration value so you'll know if you can use just a base system, or an acid/base system.

Do you have access to a good salvage yard? If so, you can save a ton of $$$ on "parts". Who will be your co-op members? If you can, try and find members that will use it as "off-road" fuel, it will save everybody a TON of paperwork!

Do you have the ability to do steel fabrication work? Will this "plant" be outside of town, or in a location that will have lots of "looky-loos"? Do you intend to recover ALL your methanol? I've got more questions, but they can wait.............I just got back from an all day biodiesel seminar today, and am going to get some sleep, we'll talk some more tomorrow. I'll PM you my phone # so you can call me if you want. I like to keep most of this on the site, but sometimes a quick call can clear up things more quickly.


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Old 12-12-2006, 09:04 PM
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This all started when I began planning to build a small processor for my personal use and I told my friends about it. When I mentioned fuel for less than $1.00/gal suddenly every was interested and my personal plans got put on hold.

Initially the feed stock will be WVO untill I can convince the farmers in the group to plant an oil crop. Once I can show them that the meal left after oil extraction can still be used as cattle feed I will have won at least half the battle.

I know that the state agriculture dept studied the practicality of growing Canola here and it grows well.
By the way how would cotten seed oil do as feed stock we have plenty of cotton seed around here at harvest time.

The group is pretty diverse with evrything from oilfield workers to farmers and pilots to dentists involved. I have a small piece of land, 12 acres, in the county. It is a very agricultural area. There is space in an existing barn for a small plant and a new utility building is in the near future.
Access to a scrap yard is possible.

As far as the process I am comfortable with chemical processes, I have a minor in chemistry, so I am considering the acid base method as it seems to be more efficient. I also intend to recover the excess methanol and to purify as much as possible the glycerol so it can be used without worry as an addfition to cattle feed. I can figure out how to do all that.

My biggest concern is regulation by state/fed agencies. Perhaps if we dont formally organize into a Co-op and remain an informal group of people making BD as a "hobby" we can avoid the attention of big brother. In order to do that there could be no sale of product.
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phydeaux88
This all started when I began planning to build a small processor for my personal use and I told my friends about it. When I mentioned fuel for less than $1.00/gal suddenly every was interested and my personal plans got put on hold.

Initially the feed stock will be WVO untill I can convince the farmers in the group to plant an oil crop. Once I can show them that the meal left after oil extraction can still be used as cattle feed I will have won at least half the battle.

I know that the state agriculture dept studied the practicality of growing Canola here and it grows well.
By the way how would cotten seed oil do as feed stock we have plenty of cotton seed around here at harvest time.

The group is pretty diverse with evrything from oilfield workers to farmers and pilots to dentists involved. I have a small piece of land, 12 acres, in the county. It is a very agricultural area. There is space in an existing barn for a small plant and a new utility building is in the near future.
Access to a scrap yard is possible.

As far as the process I am comfortable with chemical processes, I have a minor in chemistry, so I am considering the acid base method as it seems to be more efficient. I also intend to recover the excess methanol and to purify as much as possible the glycerol so it can be used without worry as an addfition to cattle feed. I can figure out how to do all that.

My biggest concern is regulation by state/fed agencies. Perhaps if we dont formally organize into a Co-op and remain an informal group of people making BD as a "hobby" we can avoid the attention of big brother. In order to do that there could be no sale of product.
The acid/base method is only needed if you a feedstock that is very high in FFAs. I've never had WVO that needed acid treatment yet, so I use just the base method. Virgin canola oil has no FFAs in it so acid/base is a waste of time and $$$. Cottonseed will work just fine to make biodiesel with. I have some data on using cotton seed, and will try and find it and post it here.

Canola feed-cake is approx 40 percent protein, and makes an excellent cattle feed. If you use KOH, all you will have to do is remove the Methanol, neutralize the KOH with vinegar and it can be used up to 10 percent by weight in animal feeds. I have 2 studies, one on feeding it to cattle, and one on feeding it to poultry. PM me your regular email add and I'll send them to you, there PDF files, so I can't post them here.

I have a friend that just wrote a book on forming Co-Ops. He was at the biodiesel seminar I just attended and gave me a huge folder on forming co-ops. I haven't had time to go through it yet, but will glean everything I can from it and post what I find here.

Forming a co-op is the best way to go at this time, it allows the co-op to distribute the biodiesel to the members at a set cost without incurring the regulatory "mess". It also puts the responsibility for "on-road" taxes on the individual member. One other thing, You DO NOT want to put the name "biodiesel" in your co-op name! The NBB has copyrighted the word, so if you use it you will incur their displeasure! Use of the word "biofuel" is OK, [ that's why my company uses biofuels instead of biodiesel........].

Safety will be your primary concern, along with a quality product. I have developed a set of protocols that will help make the safety issue a lot easier to deal with that I use on my commercial plant designs, and as soon as I get them written up I'll PM them to you. There not really necessary on a "home-brew" set-up, but will go a long way toward helping you avoid potential problems with a co-op sized plant.

I've also found a better way to recover the methanol from BOTH the biodiesel and the glycerol. I've got a little more work to refine the process, and will post the process here for all to use. It should recover the methanol a lot faster, and with less energy input.



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Old 12-13-2006, 07:52 AM
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