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Old 11-17-2006, 03:18 AM
75 SuperCab 75 SuperCab is offline
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Question Alternative Fuel Consideration

Awhile back while cruising for truck parts on eBay, I came across a (73-79) F-Series truck with a fuel system which had somehow been modified for use with both gasoline and natural gas.

Giving some thought to the rising price of gasoline these days and especially considering the significant difference in price for a comparable amount of natural gas. I was wondering if there might be anyone who can provide me with some additional information relating to this particular topic?

If so, I'm hoping to get some help answering a few questions that I have?

Q-1: MPG
Does anyone know if there are any significant differences in MPG when using comparable amounts of gasoline and natural gas?

Q-2: Tech Info
Can anyone provide any technical information about the hardware requirements and how to go about installing this type of an alternative fuel system on a (73-79) F-Series (100,150,250,350) truck?
Is this the type of a project that a well equipped "backyard" mechanic would be able to handle?

Q-3: System Cost
Does anyone happen to know the approximate cost of the associated hardware required to install this type of an alternative fuel system?

Q-4: Tax Credits
Although I am aware there are many states that are already offering incentive tax credits for the installation of this type of alternative fuel systems on vehicles. What I don't know, is if there are any similar incentive tax credits offered or available on a federal level?

Q-5: Cost Effective
Giving consideration to the overall cost as well as to the amount of time & effort inolved in setting up this type of alternative fuel system. Does anyone really know if the potential level of fuel cost savings "down the road" can really justify the cost of installing this type of a fuel system modification?

In addition to any direct responses to the questions I have provided above. Any and all relevant comments, questions and/or opinions will also be gratefully accepted and sincerely appreciated!

Thanks for your input!!!

"75 SuperCab"

Last edited by 75 SuperCab; 11-17-2006 at 03:22 AM. Reason: Mispelled words
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Old 11-17-2006, 03:31 AM
acc2828 acc2828 is offline
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I drive a 2003 F150 natural gas vehicle. It is thw 5.4L and There is not a whole lot of difference between gas milage or power. The difference in the system though is total except at the intake. Fuel injection is just slightly changed. But the fuel tank is got to be costly. I have two tanks that look like oxygen welding tanks on steroids. They are table to with stand some sort of an amazeing impact. And the fuel line are different and fuel filter. What I will say is it burns super clean. Went the oil is change every 5000 miles, it is just about as clean as the day it went in. It is a business vehicle so i don't know all the ins and outs. I know I can go about 350 mile on a fill up.

I can't afford to stay at a Holiday Inn Express, thats why I ask so many questions!
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Old 11-17-2006, 03:54 AM
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Old 11-17-2006, 10:04 AM
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1-answered above

2-Not a backyard type installation and EFI, not a carb, is the starting point. There may be a way to adapt older ones.
People mistakenly think it is almost like propane, WRONG. It is a gas at 3600psi.

3-Option price on a new Crown Vic is about $5000, dont know what the parts cost.

4-$5000 on a new vehicle, surprise! = the option price. No credits for "retrofit"
because there is no way to certify the EPA mileage and emissions.

5-Fuel costs vary a lot by area, but average about two-thirds the price of gasoline.

My opinions are based on my brother's Crown Vic and Honda Civic, dedicated CNG cars, operated in the Los Angeles area.

Jim
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Old 11-21-2006, 09:48 PM
darrin1999 darrin1999 is offline
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im pretty sure youve got natural gas confused with propane... propane is a pretty simple straightforward conversion. you just need a mixer, evaporator, some vapor line, service line, a coolant source for the evaporator, and a tank. as for federal tax incentives- if you get your conversion done by the end of the year you can take 10% of the cost of modifications off your taxes... my truck isnt going to be done by then but maybe theyll extend the tax credit again
cost of conversion to propane as far as parts go is about 400 dollars plus a tank. the cheapest place to get the conversion parts is www.propaneguy.com
as for mileage, yes youll lose 5-15% mileage depending on if you do other modifications like increasing compression ratio

Last edited by darrin1999; 11-21-2006 at 09:54 PM.
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Old 11-27-2006, 08:16 PM
MrBSS MrBSS is offline
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Either Propane or CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) can run an IC engine, and both are viable alternative fuels. It would seem to be an easy conversion, but actually, emission certification for 100,000 miles is difficult and expensive. If you don't have to pass, I guess an individual could get away with it, but I think anyone doing this professionally (without the EPA's blessing) would be violating Federal law.

Ford did manufacture CNG/gasoline bi-fuel F150's and Crown Vics through 2004. The only real problem with them is the availability of compressors (most everybody has natural gas into their homes and businesses, but you have to pressurize it to 3600 psi to get reasonable range). Natural gas is about $.80 per therm now, which is under a dollar per gallon equivalent! Usually, it's cheaper in Summer when we would use more for driving. And we get all our natural gas from North America. Also, it would be a good precursor for our Hydrogen future. So there's much to justify CNG.

Honda sells a dedicated CNG vehicle, the Civic GX, and a refueling appliance called PHILL, which is installed in your garage and connected like your gas water heater. If I could buy a PHILL separately, I would definitely explore converting my F150!
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Old 11-27-2006, 09:47 PM
darrin1999 darrin1999 is offline
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yes you can convert newer fuel injected vehicles to cng, but he was talking about an old 70's truck- which would be a propane conversion mislabeled as a natural gas conversion... thats what i think happened- dude selling the truck didnt know the difference
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Old 11-28-2006, 07:23 AM
MrBSS MrBSS is offline
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Yes, I was thinking of a newer vehicle; should have read the first post better.
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Old 11-28-2006, 03:27 PM
1978Crew 1978Crew is offline
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WWW.CNGMOTORS.COM

Try this guy out of AZ. He specializes in CNG vehicles and is a dealer for PHILL, which can be bought separately.
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Old 11-28-2006, 03:27 PM
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