460 install w/a 4-speed on a `79
#1
460 install w/a 4-speed on a `79
OK all, I've got it figured out. First off I want to thank all of you for the help, great bunch here. Here's what I've found out. L&L makes some great products that actually fit, and fit very well. But their customer service leaves a lot to be desired. As some of you know I was having trouble installing a 460 into my `79 4X4 w/a manual trany. I called L & L and they're response was to buy thier clutch/pressure plate/flywheel combo. That was their ONLY response. I told them what I'd done, and they basically told me to take a hike, very disapointing IMO.
But here's what I'm using/doing. I have a `71 internally balanced 460. I used a 390 flywheel (very easy to come by, and cheap if your after a stock, non SFI unit) They have a neutral balance (what I neded for my `71), and are physically the same size (diameter and thickness) as the Modified flywheel. The problem you run into is the type of pressure plate the older 390 used. They use a finger unit, vs. the diaphram unit used on the Mod engines. The finger unit is deeper than the diaphram, which causes interference with the shallow Modified bell housing. I guess they make adpaters, but I figured a way to do it w/o one, and I had a concern about proper starter engagement using a shimming device. You can have the FE flywheel drilled and tapped to accept the diaphram style pressure plate quite easily, and at a pretty reasonable price ($50ish locally for me). This will allow you to use the stock 400 clutch assembly, or in my case a Centerforce unit for a 400 application. I chose an 11" unit, but I think you can also get a 12" if you so desire.
I used L & L in frame headers ($425 at Jeffs Bronce Graveyard), and I can't say enough about the quality of the fit. I also used L & L PS and alt brackets ($140 at Jeffs Bronce Graveyard), but you can do a little fabbing and use the Modified units, just takes a little time, and may not look as nice as the L & L pieces. Lastly I used L & L eninge mounts ($110 also at Jeffs). I was lucky that my truck had the heavy duty radiator (5 freakin gallons...yikes!!!). You'll need the water neck off a `78-`79 460 2WD aaplication. I went to my local Napa and got radiator hoses for a `79 460 2WD w/a 460 and they fit with a minor amount of trimming (you'll need the water neck off a `78-`79 460 2WD). The fan shroud was the same with my HD cooling option.
I used the Ford Racing valve covers, which are very tall !!! In order to get them in, I had to manipulate the brake booster a little, but not too bad. Well worth the looks if you ask me.
I know it's not the cheapest conversion, but at least I figured out how to do it with the manual trany, w/o having to spend the $550 for the L & L flywheel/clutch assy, it just took a little time and a lot of phone calls.
Chris
But here's what I'm using/doing. I have a `71 internally balanced 460. I used a 390 flywheel (very easy to come by, and cheap if your after a stock, non SFI unit) They have a neutral balance (what I neded for my `71), and are physically the same size (diameter and thickness) as the Modified flywheel. The problem you run into is the type of pressure plate the older 390 used. They use a finger unit, vs. the diaphram unit used on the Mod engines. The finger unit is deeper than the diaphram, which causes interference with the shallow Modified bell housing. I guess they make adpaters, but I figured a way to do it w/o one, and I had a concern about proper starter engagement using a shimming device. You can have the FE flywheel drilled and tapped to accept the diaphram style pressure plate quite easily, and at a pretty reasonable price ($50ish locally for me). This will allow you to use the stock 400 clutch assembly, or in my case a Centerforce unit for a 400 application. I chose an 11" unit, but I think you can also get a 12" if you so desire.
I used L & L in frame headers ($425 at Jeffs Bronce Graveyard), and I can't say enough about the quality of the fit. I also used L & L PS and alt brackets ($140 at Jeffs Bronce Graveyard), but you can do a little fabbing and use the Modified units, just takes a little time, and may not look as nice as the L & L pieces. Lastly I used L & L eninge mounts ($110 also at Jeffs). I was lucky that my truck had the heavy duty radiator (5 freakin gallons...yikes!!!). You'll need the water neck off a `78-`79 460 2WD aaplication. I went to my local Napa and got radiator hoses for a `79 460 2WD w/a 460 and they fit with a minor amount of trimming (you'll need the water neck off a `78-`79 460 2WD). The fan shroud was the same with my HD cooling option.
I used the Ford Racing valve covers, which are very tall !!! In order to get them in, I had to manipulate the brake booster a little, but not too bad. Well worth the looks if you ask me.
I know it's not the cheapest conversion, but at least I figured out how to do it with the manual trany, w/o having to spend the $550 for the L & L flywheel/clutch assy, it just took a little time and a lot of phone calls.
Chris
#3
#4
#5
I started a new thread in case someone tries to look it up in the archives, the title would give them a clear answer.
As for the brake booster, what year F-350, `79 ??? I've got a `79 F-350 2WD I purchased for the 460 a little while back. I'm going to have to go have a look at it, thanks !!!!! BTW, I paid $200 for the truck. It's got a heavy duty flat bed (going to sell it), and it's an XLT !!! I drove it up on the car trailer :-). I wanted the 460, but ended up getting cruise and a tilt column too. It's nice to know a guy can still get a deal on a 460 !!!
Chris
P.S. How the heck do I edit my posts ? I wanted to fix a couple og errors in my original post, but can't ??? I have an edit bar on this post, but not my original. Darn computers...LOL.
As for the brake booster, what year F-350, `79 ??? I've got a `79 F-350 2WD I purchased for the 460 a little while back. I'm going to have to go have a look at it, thanks !!!!! BTW, I paid $200 for the truck. It's got a heavy duty flat bed (going to sell it), and it's an XLT !!! I drove it up on the car trailer :-). I wanted the 460, but ended up getting cruise and a tilt column too. It's nice to know a guy can still get a deal on a 460 !!!
Chris
P.S. How the heck do I edit my posts ? I wanted to fix a couple og errors in my original post, but can't ??? I have an edit bar on this post, but not my original. Darn computers...LOL.
#6
user only have 60 minutes to edit their threads
10 minutes for titles.
I only mentioned the thread because everything was based and related to your original thread and this thread would be in with it on any search....
Instead of wording the title exactly as shown to bring it up by itself in searching.
I, like others, like see everything regarding one's question or topic in
One thread with updates rather than spread around in multiple threads so we end up having to go look for it
The title data base is much smaller than the message box data base.
ask Eric (torque1st) or Jimmy (Lxman) with a PM to edit what you need edited.
10 minutes for titles.
I only mentioned the thread because everything was based and related to your original thread and this thread would be in with it on any search....
Instead of wording the title exactly as shown to bring it up by itself in searching.
I, like others, like see everything regarding one's question or topic in
One thread with updates rather than spread around in multiple threads so we end up having to go look for it
The title data base is much smaller than the message box data base.
ask Eric (torque1st) or Jimmy (Lxman) with a PM to edit what you need edited.
Last edited by Mil1ion; 11-16-2006 at 06:23 PM.
#7
Use the clutch from an '86 6.9 diesel (diaphram), it bolts to the 390 flywheeel and clears the bellhousing. The Borg and Beck ( 3 finger) pressure plate (360-390) will not work. You use the stock 351M-400 throwout bearing.You also have to trim the input shaft of the transmission a small amount to keep the shaft from bottoming out in the crank of the 460.
We had a shop 20 years ago and used to do these all the time. That's when 5th wheel's first appeared and bigger was better until they figured out they couldn't pull them up hill's with 351M's.
The Automatics were easier to convert, just replace the converter with a 460 converter to match the crank hole.
We had a shop 20 years ago and used to do these all the time. That's when 5th wheel's first appeared and bigger was better until they figured out they couldn't pull them up hill's with 351M's.
The Automatics were easier to convert, just replace the converter with a 460 converter to match the crank hole.
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#8
Originally Posted by Blue390
Use the clutch from an '86 6.9 diesel (diaphram), it bolts to the 390 flywheeel and clears the bellhousing. The Borg and Beck ( 3 finger) pressure plate (360-390) will not work. You use the stock 351M-400 throwout bearing.You also have to trim the input shaft of the transmission a small amount to keep the shaft from bottoming out in the crank of the 460.
Oh sure, NOW you tell me which clutch will work, j/k.....LOL !!! I wish I'd of known that, it would of simplified the install. Actually in a way I'm glad things ended up the way they did for me. I was forced to remove the trany/x-fer case, which needed a complete degreasing and new seal job done on them. Thanks for posting that great info though, as someone else can use that info.
I was told about possibly trimming the input shaft, but I personally didn't have to do so. How do you trim it anyway, just grind a little off with an air tool ?
Last edited by DaytonaTunnel; 12-10-2006 at 10:51 AM.
#9
We always used a cutoff wheel on the shaft. You could probably use a
Porta-A -Band, blade won't last long, shaft is hardened. You have to grind the chamfer back on the shaft after you cut it, just like it originally had.
It doesn't take much to get the clearance. We always removed more than we probably needed to just because it was a customers truck, we didn't want it to come back and have to take it apart again. Measure across the back of the block's with a straight edge to the bottom of the crank bore and you'll see the difference.
Another thing we used to do was to chamfer the bronze pilot bushing so the splines didn't contact it, we saw a few that actually left the imprint of the 10 splines in the face of the bushing. If you use a roller bearing pilot you have to work the splines back a little on the input shaft for clearance. Just a couple things you learn after you've done 20-30 conversions to make it as perfect as possible since some of these trucks were not that old when we did the work.
Porta-A -Band, blade won't last long, shaft is hardened. You have to grind the chamfer back on the shaft after you cut it, just like it originally had.
It doesn't take much to get the clearance. We always removed more than we probably needed to just because it was a customers truck, we didn't want it to come back and have to take it apart again. Measure across the back of the block's with a straight edge to the bottom of the crank bore and you'll see the difference.
Another thing we used to do was to chamfer the bronze pilot bushing so the splines didn't contact it, we saw a few that actually left the imprint of the 10 splines in the face of the bushing. If you use a roller bearing pilot you have to work the splines back a little on the input shaft for clearance. Just a couple things you learn after you've done 20-30 conversions to make it as perfect as possible since some of these trucks were not that old when we did the work.
#11
#12
Use the clutch from an '86 6.9 diesel (diaphram), it bolts to the 390 flywheeel and clears the bellhousing. The Borg and Beck ( 3 finger) pressure plate (360-390) will not work. You use the stock 351M-400 throwout bearing.You also have to trim the input shaft of the transmission a small amount to keep the shaft from bottoming out in the crank of the 460.
We had a shop 20 years ago and used to do these all the time. That's when 5th wheel's first appeared and bigger was better until they figured out they couldn't pull them up hill's with 351M's.
The Automatics were easier to convert, just replace the converter with a 460 converter to match the crank hole.
We had a shop 20 years ago and used to do these all the time. That's when 5th wheel's first appeared and bigger was better until they figured out they couldn't pull them up hill's with 351M's.
The Automatics were easier to convert, just replace the converter with a 460 converter to match the crank hole.
Do you by any chance remember if you used the 11 or 12 inch diesel clutch?
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