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  #1  
Old 10-28-2006, 08:00 PM
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eigenvector eigenvector is offline
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So if I want alternative fuels at the pump

Who should I petition? Should I petition the government, the gas company, the gas station, or my local eco-terrorist groups like Earth First?
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Old 10-28-2006, 09:42 PM
rusty70f100 rusty70f100 is offline
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Government would be a good idea. Hearing from an actual person, as opposed to some lobbyist, goes a long way. Aside from that, ethanol is seen as no-lose to politicians, and they probably wouldn't need much pushing.

Gas company. They'd probably laugh at you since it would eat into their profits.

Gas station. Their hands are tied due to contracts with the gas companies.

Local eco-terrorists. Maybe. They might want you to strap yourself to a tree though. It could backfire; those guys are nuts.

If it's E85 you're interested in, see here: http://www.e85fuel.com/index.php

Last edited by rusty70f100; 10-28-2006 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 10-30-2006, 10:59 PM
jimandmandy jimandmandy is offline
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Which alternative fuels do you want. And that is the "chicken and egg" question. Instead of blaming "evil" oil companies, give them some real demand to satisfy. Who is going to mass-produce dedicated H2, LPG, LNG, CNG or alcohol vehicles without refueling infrastructure in place and who is going to put in the distribution system without a lot of customers? Two Los Angeles area refineries are already dispensing H2 (Shell and BP) to the car manufacturers for experimental vehicles. It wont eat into profits if they can sell it at for more than it costs to make. Im afraid a "fragmented" market of multiple alternative-fuel vehicles wont work for the masses. Gasoline and Diesel "work" because you can buy it anywhere.

Jim
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Old 10-31-2006, 09:21 AM
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eigenvector eigenvector is offline
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I don't think it would be unreasonable to assume we are referring to E85 at this point. It's the only real topic being trotted out in the general news and currently has the greatest potential for the largest market of vehicles.

Gas stations already sell propane, natural gas, and E15. So I don't know what other alternative fuel they would offer other than E85.
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Old 10-31-2006, 09:56 AM
b1corr b1corr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eigenvector
I don't think it would be unreasonable to assume we are referring to E85 at this point. It's the only real topic being trotted out in the general news and currently has the greatest potential for the largest market of vehicles.

Gas stations already sell propane, natural gas, and E15. So I don't know what other alternative fuel they would offer other than E85.
My wife has a multi fuel car(Dodge Caravan). We can get the E85 fuel here in the Charlotte, NC area. It is about the same price as the regular gas. We have found that the car gets about 6 MPG less on the E85. It also doesn't run as well on the E85.
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Old 10-31-2006, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eigenvector
I don't think it would be unreasonable to assume we are referring to E85 at this point. It's the only real topic being trotted out in the general news and currently has the greatest potential for the largest market of vehicles.

Gas stations already sell propane, natural gas, and E15. So I don't know what other alternative fuel they would offer other than E85.
I would dispute that. How about biobutanol? I'll grant that the news is hung up on ethanol because it is out there. But if butanol makes it to market (BP/DuPont are doing it, others will probably follow), the potential is that it will run in any vehicle at a higher blend rate, not just an FFV or specially modified car. Plus, you'd experience less of a drop in mpg switching from gas to butanol as opposed to gas to ethanol. In addition, butanol could also be transported in existing gasoline pipelines.

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Last edited by PSKSAM2; 10-31-2006 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:28 PM
rusty70f100 rusty70f100 is offline
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But my old truck would ping on biobutanol! We cant have that!

Oh and b1corr, perhapse you should consider a Ford. I've seen a 2006 F150 only experience a 2mpg drop on E85, even less of a drop on a trip. From the evidence I've seen, GM and Dodge flex fuel vehicles dont get near the mileage of Ford flex fuel vehicles when running E85.
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Old 10-31-2006, 01:13 PM
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Well there you go, if BP stations start selling it I'm sure people would drive it. But first they have to start selling it. I can't think of a better way for DuPont and BP to get us hooked other than to offer it at the pump. Talking about it is wonderful and all that, but actually having it at the pump is more productive to selling their product.

Make it available then promote it.
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Old 10-31-2006, 05:01 PM
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First, gas (CNG, LNG, or propane, not sure which one) is available in several places I know of.

As for E85, some people would buy it if it were cheaper than regular gasoline, but that can't and won't happen at this time without government subsidies. Since WA doesn't have mountains of unsold corn (or potatoes) in silos, that removes one of the biggest reason for E85.
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Old 11-01-2006, 12:01 PM
1978Crew 1978Crew is offline
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HEB supports E85 in Central Texas

The local grocery store chain HEB is selling E85 at $.30 discount to regular unleaded. I have heard that HEB has made a commitment to sell the fuel at a discount without any subsidy and will make it available at all of their grocery stores with gas pumps. Of course, it will take some time to deploy, but I have see it at their store in Buda, TX.
If what I have heard is correct, HEB's E85 program needs to be supported. A corporate commitment is much more likely to be sustained that any gov't subsidy.
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Old 11-02-2006, 03:38 PM
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Here's interesting news for ethanol: McCain's farm flip

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Old 11-02-2006, 03:38 PM
 
 
 
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