Question for the gurus... Coil part number confusion
#1
10-16-2006, 09:44 PM
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Question for the gurus... Coil part number confusion
I was just browsing Ebay and noticed Motorcraft DG508 coils listed. A quick search in a couple of places shows this part # covering V10's to 2003. Both Rockauto and Motorcraft show part number DG511 for the 2004 model. So if I understand this, for some reason the 2004 2V V10 uses the same coil as the 3V ? Does anyone know what the difference in the 508 and 511 are?
Also, while we are the subject. Is the AGSF-22WM the right plug?
Also, while we are the subject. Is the AGSF-22WM the right plug?
#2
10-17-2006, 12:18 AM
The coils don't interchange because the electrical connector is different but other than that I don't know what's changed.
According to www.motorcraft.com that's the right plug but now the numbers have been changed up again. It's now an SP479.
According to www.motorcraft.com that's the right plug but now the numbers have been changed up again. It's now an SP479.
#3
10-17-2006, 10:47 AM
not to 
, but is there any benifit to changing out the coils with an accel brand coil (PN #140032). as accel states, 15% more powerful spark over OEM, better fuel milage, more power 
!! we all know how the advertising goes. but as far as quality, with performance in mind also.
i think that's the only aftermarket one availible. but i'm still searcing for some others.
, but is there any benifit to changing out the coils with an accel brand coil (PN #140032). as accel states, 15% more powerful spark over OEM, better fuel milage, more power !! we all know how the advertising goes. but as far as quality, with performance in mind also.i think that's the only aftermarket one availible. but i'm still searcing for some others.
#4
10-17-2006, 12:58 PM
I was under the impression that all Triton engines from 1999 to 2004 took the same COP...
But part numbers change something awful. One might change just part of the number, like the suffix, while another mfg might have a whole new set for the same part.
As long as it will plug in, is as good or better than OEM, then I can't see the harm. Some places will sell the Visteon for $90, others for $40 - same part. And from what I understand there's not a bit of difference in the Visteon and the Motorcraft except the logo.
I know Accel claims to have a better setup for about $28, but I can't vouch for the durability.
Still, there's so many mfgs of these coils these days - they ought to be dirt cheap.
But part numbers change something awful. One might change just part of the number, like the suffix, while another mfg might have a whole new set for the same part.
As long as it will plug in, is as good or better than OEM, then I can't see the harm. Some places will sell the Visteon for $90, others for $40 - same part. And from what I understand there's not a bit of difference in the Visteon and the Motorcraft except the logo.
I know Accel claims to have a better setup for about $28, but I can't vouch for the durability.
Still, there's so many mfgs of these coils these days - they ought to be dirt cheap.
#5
10-17-2006, 01:46 PM
Originally Posted by TeamMudd
i think that's the only aftermarket one availible. but i'm still searcing for some others.
AC DELCO / GM
AIRTEX
BORG WARNER
ECHLIN
FORD
MOTORCRAFT
VISTEON
GP/SORENSEN
KEM
NIEHOFF
STANDARD/HYGRADE
WELLS
Like any other company looking for a better deal, Ford goes out for bids on these things. Since the Triton engine has been tried and found true, more companies will jump on the bandwagon. Also, like other large corps, Ford will also take alternates - it's up to them whether to accept them or not.
Using a schematic and/or blueprints/drawings, a vendor may opt to use materials he deems sufficient, which is where we find such a huge price gap from $25 to $120 in these things. Without a chart showing durability, though, it would be hard to determine which brand is best, imo.
Anybody have such a chart?
#6
10-17-2006, 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by Big Orn
Here's a list I have so far:
AC DELCO / GM
AIRTEX
BORG WARNER
ECHLIN
FORD
MOTORCRAFT
VISTEON
GP/SORENSEN
KEM
NIEHOFF
STANDARD/HYGRADE
WELLS
Like any other company looking for a better deal, Ford goes out for bids on these things. Since the Triton engine has been tried and found true, more companies will jump on the bandwagon. Also, like other large corps, Ford will also take alternates - it's up to them whether to accept them or not.
Using a schematic and/or blueprints/drawings, a vendor may opt to use materials he deems sufficient, which is where we find such a huge price gap from $25 to $120 in these things. Without a chart showing durability, though, it would be hard to determine which brand is best, imo.
Anybody have such a chart?
AC DELCO / GM
AIRTEX
BORG WARNER
ECHLIN
FORD
MOTORCRAFT
VISTEON
GP/SORENSEN
KEM
NIEHOFF
STANDARD/HYGRADE
WELLS
Like any other company looking for a better deal, Ford goes out for bids on these things. Since the Triton engine has been tried and found true, more companies will jump on the bandwagon. Also, like other large corps, Ford will also take alternates - it's up to them whether to accept them or not.
Using a schematic and/or blueprints/drawings, a vendor may opt to use materials he deems sufficient, which is where we find such a huge price gap from $25 to $120 in these things. Without a chart showing durability, though, it would be hard to determine which brand is best, imo.
Anybody have such a chart?
as for the durability, i'm just curiuos. if standard MC are high quality for a daily driving/towin occasinaly, i woun't/woun't change. mine are firing fine as of right now. read on here where guys have had a couple go bad, and just change them all to be safe, but it doesn't seem like a epidemic happening!
that would be a good find (a duribility/performance chart) for an after market coil compared to the stock MC.
#7
10-17-2006, 03:49 PM
If it makes you feel any better I've changed just one coil in 118K+ miles.
My first question when I came to FTE was inquiring about a misfire. Struggled with that thing, replaced boots, plugs, etc. It was only misfiring under load and would never skip when on a scanner. Stopped for awhile, then would start all over again. I take this truck into some bad stuff sometimes, getting water, muck and mud on the engine all the time. Only one COP in all that time. Yeah, there's cheaper out there, but even the Motorcraft coils are cheaper now than then. I think if you search around you can get OEM now for about $45 - $50.
Here's what my old '99 looks like much of the time:
My first question when I came to FTE was inquiring about a misfire. Struggled with that thing, replaced boots, plugs, etc. It was only misfiring under load and would never skip when on a scanner. Stopped for awhile, then would start all over again. I take this truck into some bad stuff sometimes, getting water, muck and mud on the engine all the time. Only one COP in all that time. Yeah, there's cheaper out there, but even the Motorcraft coils are cheaper now than then. I think if you search around you can get OEM now for about $45 - $50.
Here's what my old '99 looks like much of the time:
Trending Topics
#8
10-17-2006, 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by Big Orn
If it makes you feel any better I've changed just one coil in 118K+ miles.
My first question when I came to FTE was inquiring about a misfire. Struggled with that thing, replaced boots, plugs, etc. It was only misfiring under load and would never skip when on a scanner. Stopped for awhile, then would start all over again. I take this truck into some bad stuff sometimes, getting water, muck and mud on the engine all the time. Only one COP in all that time. Yeah, there's cheaper out there, but even the Motorcraft coils are cheaper now than then. I think if you search around you can get OEM now for about $45 - $50.
My first question when I came to FTE was inquiring about a misfire. Struggled with that thing, replaced boots, plugs, etc. It was only misfiring under load and would never skip when on a scanner. Stopped for awhile, then would start all over again. I take this truck into some bad stuff sometimes, getting water, muck and mud on the engine all the time. Only one COP in all that time. Yeah, there's cheaper out there, but even the Motorcraft coils are cheaper now than then. I think if you search around you can get OEM now for about $45 - $50.
#9
10-17-2006, 04:12 PM
#10
10-17-2006, 04:30 PM
^^^ that's the same reason i kinda hijacked the thread (not on purpose thought). i just wanted to know if there was any gains on the durability side, and then the performance side second. i'd rather have a more duarble COP if i ever had to replace one. and if one goes, me personaly, i'd go ahead and swap them all. just to make sure if one goes, i don't have to guess how far behind anouther one is.
BUT i may get a wild hair one day and buy a set. then i wounder if they fire hotter, would you want to drop a plug #, so its slightly cooler? BUT then again the factory temp plugs may be just fine since your just switching the COP, and not creating a hotter ignition system (ie MSd box, Mallory box ect....)! If or WHEN i do switch i'll definetly post it up!
BUT i may get a wild hair one day and buy a set. then i wounder if they fire hotter, would you want to drop a plug #, so its slightly cooler? BUT then again the factory temp plugs may be just fine since your just switching the COP, and not creating a hotter ignition system (ie MSd box, Mallory box ect....)! If or WHEN i do switch i'll definetly post it up!
#11
10-17-2006, 05:08 PM
), but if optimum fire is projected from the coil to the plug and combustion occurs, then what would 15% more do? 
#12
10-17-2006, 08:02 PM
[QUOTE=TeamMudd]not to , but is there any benifit to changing out the coils with an accel brand coil (PN #140032). as accel states, 15% more powerful spark over OEM, better fuel milage, more power !! we all know how the advertising goes. but as far as quality, with performance in mind also.
QUOTE]
that's why i put that in a previous post...........the gimic of advertising is always out there. so that's why i wan't overly concerned as to what the "performance" gains would be, just the "quality" of the coil! if they were a higher quality than OEM..........would it be a decent upgrade? if there not higher quality than OEM, then would OEM replacements would be the best bet for the $, type thing.
i am glad to know that there are 100K+ milage out there with minimal COP failure. as we all know the 99-00 "spark plug spit up" has been discussed with good fixes out there!
, but is there any benifit to changing out the coils with an accel brand coil (PN #140032). as accel states, 15% more powerful spark over OEM, better fuel milage, more power !! we all know how the advertising goes. but as far as quality, with performance in mind also.QUOTE]
that's why i put that in a previous post...........the gimic of advertising is always out there. so that's why i wan't overly concerned as to what the "performance" gains would be, just the "quality" of the coil! if they were a higher quality than OEM..........would it be a decent upgrade? if there not higher quality than OEM, then would OEM replacements would be the best bet for the $, type thing.
i am glad to know that there are 100K+ milage out there with minimal COP failure. as we all know the 99-00 "spark plug spit up" has been discussed with good fixes out there!
#14
10-19-2006, 01:31 PM
IMHO...if a person was to upgrade to the Accel COP that claims 15% more spark, then it would be necessary to replace all 10. If going with an OEM type COP even non-Motorcraft, then only 1 is needed.
Plus, most aftermarket ignition systems that offer a higher and longer spark...also state to increase the spark plug gap. Not sure if that would be necessary with going Accel COP. But something to verify...
Here is the Part number...just in case anyone is interested.
This part number is good for all 2v '99-'04 Modular engines. According to Accel website search.
biz
Plus, most aftermarket ignition systems that offer a higher and longer spark...also state to increase the spark plug gap. Not sure if that would be necessary with going Accel COP. But something to verify...
Here is the Part number...just in case anyone is interested.
COIL,FORD MOD ENG 2-VALVE
Model Number: 140032
Model Number: 140032
biz
Last edited by biz4two; 10-19-2006 at 01:44 PM.
#15
10-19-2006, 01:58 PM
One other thing to throw into this discussion:
Many times, both here in V10-land and the 4.6/5.4 forum, someone has a misfire.
They either bring it to the dealer or local mechanic first, or try to fix it themselves.
I've noticed that a tech will just change the entire COP with the boot when they figure out which cylinder is misfiring. Sometimes they change that one plug at the same time, really making sure the misfire is gone without knowing the real cause.
The DIY'er will figure out which one, either by scanning for the misfire counters, or playing round-robin with a new COP until the problem is gone.
Notice how almost none of these techs or DIY'ers don't check for dirt/water/bad boot first?
From all the testimonials I've read on this site, I've noticed at least 90% of them just play "change the COP" and it's fixed.
In my experiences with my own modulars (2 4.6's and the V10), any misfires I got were usually corrosion/moisture related.
Conclusion:
At least 90% of the reports of a bad COP, it was really a bad boot, moisture or dirt that was causing the misfire. Changing the COP made it go away because it's a brand-new, nice shiny new piece. But did the COP itself really fail? Not usually.
Even in cases of heat-related failures, water can get into the spark plug hole, sit at the bottom and not cause a problem. Engine heats up, water vaporizes and shorts out the COP. Engine cools off, water condenses, falls back to the bottom of the hole. Startup the next morning, no problems until the engine gets hot again. Tech finds misfiring cylinder, blows out the hole, changes the COP, and it's fine. Owner gets the vehicle back, tech says "changed the COP", and the owner blames a bad COP because they had to PAY for a new COP. Is it really the cause? Mostly not.
Many times, both here in V10-land and the 4.6/5.4 forum, someone has a misfire.
They either bring it to the dealer or local mechanic first, or try to fix it themselves.
I've noticed that a tech will just change the entire COP with the boot when they figure out which cylinder is misfiring. Sometimes they change that one plug at the same time, really making sure the misfire is gone without knowing the real cause.
The DIY'er will figure out which one, either by scanning for the misfire counters, or playing round-robin with a new COP until the problem is gone.
Notice how almost none of these techs or DIY'ers don't check for dirt/water/bad boot first?
From all the testimonials I've read on this site, I've noticed at least 90% of them just play "change the COP" and it's fixed.
In my experiences with my own modulars (2 4.6's and the V10), any misfires I got were usually corrosion/moisture related.
Conclusion:
At least 90% of the reports of a bad COP, it was really a bad boot, moisture or dirt that was causing the misfire. Changing the COP made it go away because it's a brand-new, nice shiny new piece. But did the COP itself really fail? Not usually.
Even in cases of heat-related failures, water can get into the spark plug hole, sit at the bottom and not cause a problem. Engine heats up, water vaporizes and shorts out the COP. Engine cools off, water condenses, falls back to the bottom of the hole. Startup the next morning, no problems until the engine gets hot again. Tech finds misfiring cylinder, blows out the hole, changes the COP, and it's fine. Owner gets the vehicle back, tech says "changed the COP", and the owner blames a bad COP because they had to PAY for a new COP. Is it really the cause? Mostly not.