[updated:LAST EDITED ON 08-Jan-03 AT 09:33 AM (EST)]1. Could a switch to FI be the answer or part of the answer to my mpg/performance issue? Would an OD bolt-on behind my C4 + the FI swap do it? If so, what FI kit for my rebuilt '68 302? Ease of swap? Snafu's? Pro's and Con's?.... Thanks FTE'rs!

2. Before I get it upholstered, and after looking at the wiring job, I think I need to re-wire the ol' boy. My '59 is a 12-volt system. I am leaning towards the Ron Francis Wire Works #AP-97 kit. Looks "easy" relative to what the headache of re-wiring is in reality compared to other kits (PainFUL, etc) out there. The wiring that's in there now have NO colors or labels on them. So when I go to yank them out, it's gonna be tough to trace what wire goes where (and on top of that, some are spliced mid-run onto wires of different colors, so what starts out a black wire ends up a green & orange wire, for example). Swell....

Anyway.... anyone use the Ron Francis kit? Good? Bad? Ugly? Any input on what to expect once I get into the thick of it? You guys know I'm an "idgit" when it comes to resto stuff, but you should see how LITTLE I know about electrical!?! I can't even program a VCR!!!
It can't be as easy as they say; I know from two years of resto that NOTHING EVER IS !!! So what's the REAL low-down on re-wiring? What other skills and knowledge does one have to have to accomplish this UGLY feat?

With MUCH hesitation and NUMEROUS reservations,
Daryl

 

You seem to be extremely concerned about this whole mileage issue. Exactly what kind of mileage are you looking for? If you are after 25 MPG, you can forget it. With your application, consider yourself lucky if you can find a way to get 15-18. In some cases, having a smaller engine does not necessarily mean that it will be a gas sipper. Yours would probably be one of them. Your truck is heavy and has the wind cheating ability of a housplant. In all honesty, my opinion is that if you are really and truly interested in getting better mileage, you should have kept the 3.00 gears and stepped up to a bigger powerplant that wouldn't have to work so hard to get you considerable truck moving. A 351W would bolt right in place of your 302. In regards to the EFI conversion, that is definitely not a bang for the buck mod. You'd have to drive that truck to your grave to regain the cost of installation. Plus it is not an easy plug and play affair. Lots of wiring. Didn't you just say that that isn't your cup of tea? And finally, a well-tuned carbureted engine is capable of getting equal fuel mileage numbers to an EFI system. Give us a better idea of what you really want and we can be more helpful.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 08-Jan-03 AT 12:36 PM (EST)]Daryl

I completely agree with 'rage (it's kinda rare but it happens now and then). You really do seem deeply concerned about fuel mileage. Do you want to save money or fuel? I'll say again we will all probably be dead before you save $3000 in fuel with an OD.

If you really want some meaningful advice. Stop, do not pass go, do not spend $3000. Get in your truck and give use some real mpg figures at this time. Keep your foot out of the carb. Just drive like a law abiding citizen and post the results for 2 tanks of fuel.

We will do the math for you and show you how many miles you must drive to break even on these potential outlays. We can go from there. I will call Edelbrock and Holley for you if you'd like but we need the facts and your expectations. Otherwise we will continue to proceed in big circles.

Daryl, I think it might be wise for you to spend some ogf this money hiring out your rewire job. Especially if you want your truck back on the road quickly.

One more thing, ask your differential man if he will give Joe and I a commission on future gear swaps

'fenders

 

I probably wouldn't consider trying to put FI on an older engine. If you really want FI, try a later engine that had FI and get a good wiring harness. I have done a couple and love them, but it is time consuming. Lots of extra things to think about, such as fuel pumps, return lines, etc.
I used a Ron Francis kit on my 57 and was happy with it. However, I have never used any other (body or chassis) wiring kit, so it can't compare to Painless, etc. I did feel the instructions in the Ron Francis kit were very good.
I actually used two of their kits as I also used their harness for the fuel injection.

hrandy48

 

Daryl,
The biggest difference in MPG between Carbs and FI is seen in stop light traffic. Everytime you massage the gas pedal on a carb the accelerator pump dumps extra gas down the throat. Also, carbs are the least precise at idle and just off idle. But these guys are right, the difference would not be enough to pay for the FI swap.
We can help you size a carb for your application, if you need advice. Then get your carb guy to dial it in for you.
Good Luck!
Brett

 

I think Daryl just got his truck back from a good tune and carb dial in. That's why now is a good time to get a good baseline for fuel mpg. I think the difference in fuel mileage between a 70s style carbed 302 and a 90s EFI 5.0 might possibly be substantially different. Good time for that would be when you need a fresh engine anyway.

The aftermarket FI will make throttle response nice and crisp from what I have read on the sustems. Now whether or not a Holley or Edelbrock type system would give you substantially better fuel mileage? I have my doubts. I bet they are targeting the products more to someone looking for performance.

'fenders

 

Rage,
If I can get 15mpg, I'd be satisfied. More would be nice, but I never expected to get 9-10 mpg like I am getting now.
Daryl

 

Daryl

This is the first time you have posted specific mpg. 9-10 is lame. I think 15 is obtainable with the AOD and your foot out of the car. Lets hope so. I can tell you the big motor, better mileage phenomenon is not 'rages imagination. I have seen 351Ws do better than 302s in a similar heavy vehicle on more than one occasion.

'fenders

 

Daryl,
15 sounds doable. Here's a couple things to look for. Make sure your distributor has a functioning centrifigal and vacuum advance, and that the advance curve and timing is right. The carb could probably be tweaked. Rig an accurate vacuum gauge inside the cab and watch it like a hawk when you are driving. Find out which 'step-up' springs are in the carb. These determine at what point the carb transitions from 'economy/lean' to 'power/rich' mode. Everytime the vacuum drops below the threshold you just richend up the carb and lost some economy. They have differing step-up springs available to tailor when this transition occurs. If you are cruising at a constant speed on a level stretch of road make note of the vacuum. It should be above the transition point. Especially in Overdrive. If you have too tall a set of gears, and not enough torque to pull it, your vacuum will drop, the carb will go into 'power' mode (rich), and there goes your economy.
Little things you can do include switching from a 160 or 180 degree thermostat to a 195. If you are in a cold evvironment make sure the heat riser and the air cleaner has a functioning heated snorkel. Tires have differing rolling resistances. Make sure yours are properly inflated. Reduce your wind resistance as much as possible. For example if you have a set of huge west coast mirrors, get rid of them.
There are other things that can be done but that should get your started.
Good Luck!
Brett

 

Brett,
Ironically, I just had the carb tuned and re-jetted last week along with having the work done on the distributor (arc and advance). I think that is what made the difference in me going from 9-10 mpg to 13 the last two tankfuls. I'll print out your comments about the vacuum, etc and discuss it with the guy who is building my AOD and also with Shahan's (installing it). I'm sure they'll know EXACTLY what you're talking about and they can give mr the layman's version so I can understand it!

Many, many thanks. The AOD should be in in about 2 weeks total.

Daryl