1999 Expe wont start HELP PLEASE!!!
#1
1999 Expe wont start HELP PLEASE!!!
My 1999 XLT 4.6 Expedition wont start. It was running fine but when I drove over a set of train tracks the engine just cut out. Theft light blinks rapidly and engine cranks but will not start. I have tried both keys. The Odometer is dashed out --------. Any ideas?
#2
If the theft light is blinking rapidly and the engine cranks but won't start my first guess would be a problem with the PATS/anti-theft system. Try cycling the the alarm a few time (arm then disarm) and then try to start her up. Also check your battery connections. Get rid of any corosion. I had a similar problem with a 4.6 Mustang. Turned out to be excessive battery corosion with intermittent voltage that confused the PATS system.
Last edited by bridge; 09-25-2006 at 09:05 PM.
#7
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#8
Unless someone else pops in here with a new revelation, I'd say you've got an electrical short or bad battery. How old and what brand of battery do you have? Take the battery and get it tested. Hopefully that's your issue. If not you might need some more professional diagnostics...or atleast more than I can offer
Oh, one other thing. Check and see if you are getting pressure to the fuel system by releasing the schrader valve on the fuel rail with the key in the on position. I have a feeling that your fuel pump is not switching on so this should verify that. No pressure equal fuel delivery issue. If there is pressure you should look at the ignition (spark) system.
Oh, one other thing. Check and see if you are getting pressure to the fuel system by releasing the schrader valve on the fuel rail with the key in the on position. I have a feeling that your fuel pump is not switching on so this should verify that. No pressure equal fuel delivery issue. If there is pressure you should look at the ignition (spark) system.
Last edited by bridge; 09-25-2006 at 10:15 PM.
#9
Im not getting pressure to the injector rails but I tested the fuel pump by disconnecting it and running power to it. It works.
I think she is going to take a flatbed trip to the Dealer. I think there might be a computer problem. Nothing elses seems to be the problem.
Thanks for the help bridge. Ill let you know what happens.
I cant wait for the bill.
I think she is going to take a flatbed trip to the Dealer. I think there might be a computer problem. Nothing elses seems to be the problem.
Thanks for the help bridge. Ill let you know what happens.
I cant wait for the bill.
#11
#12
From the 99 Expy Service manual:
Anti-Theft — Passive
The passive anti-theft system (PATS) contains the following components:
l theft indicator
l encoded ignition key
l transceiver module
l instrument cluster
l powertrain control module (PCM)
l standard corporate protocol (SCP) communication network
The PATS uses radio frequency identification technology to deter a driveaway theft. Passive means that it does not require any activity from the user. This system is known as SecuriLock® in North America, Safeguard® in the U.K. and PATS in continental Europe. This information can be found in owners literature.
The PATS uses a specially encoded ignition key. Each encoded ignition key contains a permanently installed electronic device called a transponder. Each transponder contains a unique electronic identification code, with over 72 million billion combinations.
Each encoded ignition key must be programmed into the vehicle's instrument cluster (the instrument cluster is also known as a hybrid electronic cluster [HEC]), before it can be used to start the engine. There are special diagnostic procedures outlined in the workshop manual that must be carried out if new encoded ignition keys are to be installed.
The encoded key is larger than a traditional ignition key. The key does not require batteries and should last the life of the vehicle.
The transceiver module communicates with the encoded ignition key. This module is located behind the steering column shroud and contains an antenna connected to a small electronics module. During each vehicle start sequence, the transceiver module reads the encoded ignition key identification code and sends the data to the instrument cluster.
The control functions are contained in the instrument cluster. This module carries out all of the PATS functions such as receiving the identification code from the encoded ignition key and controlling engine enable. The instrument cluster initiates the key interrogation sequence when the vehicle ignition switch is turned to RUN or START.
The PATS uses the PCM to enable or disable the engine. The instrument cluster communicates with the PCM over the SCP network in order to enable engine operation. The instrument cluster and the PCM use sophisticated messages in order to prevent a theft. The instrument cluster and the PCM share security data (when first installed together) that makes them a matched pair. After this security data sharing, these modules will not function in other vehicles. The shared PCM ID is remembered even if the battery is disconnected. The instrument cluster also stores the vehicle's key identification code even if the battery is disconnected. There are special diagnostic procedures outlined in this workshop manual that may be carried out if either a new instrument cluster or PCM needs to be installed.
All elements of PATS must be functional before the engine is allowed to start. If any of the components are not working correctly, the vehicle will not start.
PATS uses a visual theft indicator. This indicator will prove out for three seconds when the ignition switch is turned to RUN or START under normal operation. If there is a PATS problem, this indicator will either flash rapidly or glow steadily (for more than three seconds) when the ignition switch is turned to RUN or START. PATS also "blips" the theft indicator every two seconds at ignition OFF to act as a visual theft deterrent.
The PATS is not compatible with aftermarket remote start systems, which allow the vehicle to be started from outside the vehicle. These systems may reduce the vehicle security level, and also may cause no-start issues. Remote start systems must be removed before investigation of PATS-related no-start issues.
Since your 99 uses the HEC, you should be able to enter the HEC Dealer Test Mode and gain access to any available HEC-/PATS-related DTCs.
Steve
Anti-Theft — Passive
The passive anti-theft system (PATS) contains the following components:
l theft indicator
l encoded ignition key
l transceiver module
l instrument cluster
l powertrain control module (PCM)
l standard corporate protocol (SCP) communication network
The PATS uses radio frequency identification technology to deter a driveaway theft. Passive means that it does not require any activity from the user. This system is known as SecuriLock® in North America, Safeguard® in the U.K. and PATS in continental Europe. This information can be found in owners literature.
The PATS uses a specially encoded ignition key. Each encoded ignition key contains a permanently installed electronic device called a transponder. Each transponder contains a unique electronic identification code, with over 72 million billion combinations.
Each encoded ignition key must be programmed into the vehicle's instrument cluster (the instrument cluster is also known as a hybrid electronic cluster [HEC]), before it can be used to start the engine. There are special diagnostic procedures outlined in the workshop manual that must be carried out if new encoded ignition keys are to be installed.
The encoded key is larger than a traditional ignition key. The key does not require batteries and should last the life of the vehicle.
The transceiver module communicates with the encoded ignition key. This module is located behind the steering column shroud and contains an antenna connected to a small electronics module. During each vehicle start sequence, the transceiver module reads the encoded ignition key identification code and sends the data to the instrument cluster.
The control functions are contained in the instrument cluster. This module carries out all of the PATS functions such as receiving the identification code from the encoded ignition key and controlling engine enable. The instrument cluster initiates the key interrogation sequence when the vehicle ignition switch is turned to RUN or START.
The PATS uses the PCM to enable or disable the engine. The instrument cluster communicates with the PCM over the SCP network in order to enable engine operation. The instrument cluster and the PCM use sophisticated messages in order to prevent a theft. The instrument cluster and the PCM share security data (when first installed together) that makes them a matched pair. After this security data sharing, these modules will not function in other vehicles. The shared PCM ID is remembered even if the battery is disconnected. The instrument cluster also stores the vehicle's key identification code even if the battery is disconnected. There are special diagnostic procedures outlined in this workshop manual that may be carried out if either a new instrument cluster or PCM needs to be installed.
All elements of PATS must be functional before the engine is allowed to start. If any of the components are not working correctly, the vehicle will not start.
PATS uses a visual theft indicator. This indicator will prove out for three seconds when the ignition switch is turned to RUN or START under normal operation. If there is a PATS problem, this indicator will either flash rapidly or glow steadily (for more than three seconds) when the ignition switch is turned to RUN or START. PATS also "blips" the theft indicator every two seconds at ignition OFF to act as a visual theft deterrent.
The PATS is not compatible with aftermarket remote start systems, which allow the vehicle to be started from outside the vehicle. These systems may reduce the vehicle security level, and also may cause no-start issues. Remote start systems must be removed before investigation of PATS-related no-start issues.
Steve
Last edited by projectSHO89; 09-26-2006 at 12:00 PM.
#14
Expys fixed
Well… the inevitable came. She got towed to the nearest Ford dealer. They hooked it up to the diagnostic computer and could not communicate with the PCM at all, and it turned out to be the PCM got fired. None of the service team could explain why it failed, or were even sure that it was the entire problem, they wont even open up the PCM to see what failed they just sent it back to Ford. I hope that the problem is permanently fixed. The price was absolutely ridiculous, I debated it for almost an hour, $983.00, and they didn’t even fix the odometer blackout problem and can’t even guarantee that it is fixed. For now I am not going to touch anything until I know it won’t fail again. Then I may try to fix the odometer, I am sure it’s just a cold solder connection like some of the other forums show.
<o></o>
Thanks guys for all your help, hope this doesn’t happen to any one else because you can really take it in the I have a dirty mouth form the dealer with these kinds of problems, since it requires a lot of diagnostic equipment and programming, something only the dealer can do. I recommend doing everything you can to try to fix the problem yourself I made a list of everything I did.<o></o>
-Try all of the vehicles keys, and remove them completely form the key rings
<o></o>
-Check if the Jolt Sensor/Fuel Pump Cut Off is tripped
<o></o>
-See if the PATS system gives you a Light Flash Code(LFC) with the THEFT light, you can find the codes in a service manual, online, and on this website
<o></o>
-Check and clean all connections between the Instrument Cluster(HEC), and PCM and to the key reader in the steering column
<o></o>
-If the odometer reads ---------- than there is a fault with either the; HEC, PCM, or the connection between the two units.
<o></o>
-See if the O/D light on the shifter is on, and if it is try to turn the light off with the button, if it remains illuminated there is usually a problem with the PCM.
<o></o>
Ask as many questions as you need to, online forums, other “intelligent” people, and sometimes even the Dealer will give some help (very rare). Unless you are broken down on the side of the road, make it your last resort to bring your vehicle to the dealer.
<o></o>
Thanks again to those who helped me, and to ford-trucks.com
<o></o>
-Ryan
<o></o>
Thanks guys for all your help, hope this doesn’t happen to any one else because you can really take it in the I have a dirty mouth form the dealer with these kinds of problems, since it requires a lot of diagnostic equipment and programming, something only the dealer can do. I recommend doing everything you can to try to fix the problem yourself I made a list of everything I did.<o></o>
-Try all of the vehicles keys, and remove them completely form the key rings
<o></o>
-Check if the Jolt Sensor/Fuel Pump Cut Off is tripped
<o></o>
-See if the PATS system gives you a Light Flash Code(LFC) with the THEFT light, you can find the codes in a service manual, online, and on this website
<o></o>
-Check and clean all connections between the Instrument Cluster(HEC), and PCM and to the key reader in the steering column
<o></o>
-If the odometer reads ---------- than there is a fault with either the; HEC, PCM, or the connection between the two units.
<o></o>
-See if the O/D light on the shifter is on, and if it is try to turn the light off with the button, if it remains illuminated there is usually a problem with the PCM.
<o></o>
Ask as many questions as you need to, online forums, other “intelligent” people, and sometimes even the Dealer will give some help (very rare). Unless you are broken down on the side of the road, make it your last resort to bring your vehicle to the dealer.
<o></o>
Thanks again to those who helped me, and to ford-trucks.com
<o></o>
-Ryan
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