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Old 09-11-2006, 07:38 PM
rusty70f100 rusty70f100 is offline
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Anyone see this? E85 conversion kit

http://rochesterproducts.com/

Interesting stuff. Seems this is a complete aftermarket E85 conversion kit, to make your vehicle flex-fuel. What sets this one apart is that it monitors the amount of ethanol in the tank and adjusts as needed. No switches. It's a complete fuel injection system too.

Thoughts?
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Old 09-11-2006, 10:27 PM
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May work but not legal, read the fine print, "For off road use only"...

Some other typical marketing hype there also.

Those info links I have posted re E85 said there may be kits like that coming. It would take a few lifetimes to pay for the kit with fuel cost savings. Assuming of course that Ethanol gets higher subsidies and keeps them.
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Old 09-11-2006, 10:41 PM
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I think it's more aimed at enthusiasts, who want to build their high performance high compression motors like they were stock. They're not really concerned with fuel savings; they're concerned with readily available high-octane fuel, so they can drive their vintage high performance car around without killing the motor with low octane gas.

There is more fine print. See here:
http://rochesterproducts.com/html/50StateLegal.htm
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Old 09-11-2006, 11:19 PM
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That was the fine print I was talking about, read it closely.

The kit would take some of the guesswork out of conversions.
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Old 09-12-2006, 08:02 AM
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The Flex Jet model is touted as 50 state legal, with no disclamer of the off road use only, but they won't back it for the emisions is all... but it woul d apear to be legal otherwise, you're just on your own on the emissions part...
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Old 09-12-2006, 11:41 AM
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There's a very good reason you're on your own on the emissions part. If you were to tune it incorrectly, why should Rochester Products be held liable?
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Old 09-12-2006, 11:57 AM
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Exactly... I realize that, just was mentioning it doesn't state the off road use only on that particular unit.
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Old 09-12-2006, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
FLEX-JET is 50 State Legal!

Flex-Jet, when using 15% ethanol or more actually improves engine operation by tightening up the air to fuel ratio and by doing so also actually improves exhaust emissions.

Flex-Jet doesn't tamper or modify any of the emissions control systems on vehicles with carbureted engines. While using E85, the use of Flex-Jet improves emission via improving control of the engines air to fuel ratio. Flex-Jet is guaranteed to meet all state inspection emission tests for vehicles 25 years of age and older.

Comment- Basically carbed engines and vehicles older than 25 years puts them out of the "emissions law years", you can do just about anything to those vehicles and be "50 State Legal"...

E-FIRE

E-Fire units will be for sale, but until full emmissions testing is completed, they are for the enthusiast and are for "For Off Road Use Only - Not Legal for Sale on a Pollution Controlled Vehicle."

Comment- And Again...
Flex-Jection MPI and Flex-Jection TBI for Vehicles before 1974
These products are legally installable on these vehicles.

Flex-Jection MPI and Flex-Jection TBI for Vehicles after 1973
These products are for the enthusiast and are for "For Off Road Use Only - Not Legal for Sale on a Pollution Controlled Vehicle."
Nowhere does it say these products are 50 State Legal for any vehicle covered under the "50 State Legal" laws. Some states may not agree with them tho. Some states go back more than 25 years and this kit would not pass visuals etc. Basically all they are saying is they are 50 States Legal on vehicles that don't matter. Kind of an advertising "slight of hand" trick that apparently was good enuf to get past some of you.
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Last edited by Torque1st; 09-12-2006 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 09-12-2006, 09:31 PM
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FLEX-JET:
FLEX-JET is a patent pending Flexible Fuel Conversion System that converts gasoline engines originally equipped with carburetors or throttle body injection so they can be fuel flexible. Flex-Jet is Rochester Products' most inexpensive conversion kit and it requires no tuning for stock OEM* carbureted engines. Flex-Jet optional accessories include Distributor-Timing Control (DTC) and Exhaust Gas Oxygen (O2) Sensing. DTC is used in high compression engines to eliminate detonation by controlling engine timing based on the amount of ethanol in the fuel. Exhaust Gas Oxygen (O2) Sensing is for non-computer controlled carburetors. O2 Sensing can be either a standard narrowband O2 or Wideband O2 Sensor. For custom engine applications, Flex-Jet software can be tuned by a Laptop, PDA, Tablet PC or Calibration Module.

Rochester Products Corporation manufactures all flexible fuel conversion systems to include everything needed to correctly convert a gasoline only car, boat or truck for flexible fuel operation. For ethanol compatibility, depending upon the vehicle, certain fuel system parts may need to be replaced or modified.

Flex-Jet doesn't tamper or modify any of the emissions control systems on vehicles with carbureted engines. While using E85, the use of Flex-Jet improves emission via improving control of the engines air to fuel ratio. Flex-Jet is guarrenteed to meet all state inspection emission tests for vehicles 25 years of age and older.

FLEX-JET Conversion Kit Includes:

1. FLEX-JET Electronic Control Processor Module
2. Injectors (4)
3. Wiring Harness
4. Flexible Fuel Sensor
5. High Performance Fuel Pump
6. Injector Manifold with rails
7. Low pressure regulator
8. High pressure regulator
9. Set of fuel lines
10. Set of seals
11. Documentation package.

*OEM: Original Equipment Manufacturer.


While they do state that, for 25 years old, it is an understanding that you are on your own in regards to emissions, but they are not going so far as to state on this unit is for off road use only, so that takes some liability on their shoulders.As far as meeting emissions, they do not claim to make it, but they also are taking some liability for use on the road, so while they dive on the emissions themselves, they aren't on the fact it is used on the road. It didn't get past me, but it is such that they have SOME responsibility, just not that when you pull into the emissins test station it will automatically meet the standards. Its like a manifold that it CARB accepted, they don't guarantee that it will meet emissions, only that it is accepted. Even the carbs they sell that sit on top of the manifold aren't guaranteed to meet emissions, only the fact it is accepted.
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:08 PM
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The do state; "For Off Road Use Only - Not Legal for Sale on a Pollution Controlled Vehicle." -read my post above copied from their website.

Or look on their website:
http://rochesterproducts.com/html/50StateLegal.htm
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:28 PM
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That applies to SOME of their products. Read the individual product desriptions, it also shows up there, some state for off road use only, while 2 do not, and claim 50 state legal. Read the same thing in Jegs Summit or anywhere else, they state 50 state legal, but not necessarily emissions legal. It is no different. 50 state legal means it is legal to have installed on the vehicle. There are no promises about the emissions on those parts either.

Quote:
Flex-Jet doesn't tamper or modify any of the emissions control systems on vehicles with carbureted engines. While using E85, the use of Flex-Jet improves emission via improving control of the engines air to fuel ratio. Flex-Jet is guaranteed to meet all state inspection emission tests for vehicles 25 years of age and older.
Yes, it is easy to meet the emissions test for that, and that is what they are targeting, that they won't guarantee the emissions. There are many factors that go into emissions testing and tuning. Engine condition, timing, fuel quality, fuel mixture and such all enter into the equation, and since they have no control over the installation and operation, they won't cover the emissions part. Headers are called 50 state legal too, if they have the appropriate emissions control ports. But they won't cover anyone on emissions either. I can guarantee that Edelbrock won't cover their 50 state legal carbs to meet emissions out of the box either. So we either leave it purely stock, and hope it matches emissions, or we look for changes. It doesn't mean they can't meet it, or you will be fined for using their systems, only that they won't back up the emissions of each vehicle. If you were a manufacturer, would you be willing to hang your butt out there for customers you have no idea how competent they are, or what kind of condition the vehicles they are putting them on are in/ If you want an emissions gurantee, it will be a dealer install only sales system.

from Edelbrock's site about their EFI systems...
Quote:
Performer and Performer RPM Pro-Flo Multi-Point EFI Systems
For AMC/Jeep, Chevrolet, Chrysler and Ford Engines Originally Equipped with a Carburetor

Designed for non-emission engines, these high-performance multi-point electronic fuel injection systems include everything you need to convert a carbureted engine to powerful multi-point fuel injection. Using a speed/density system for control over fuel and spark, Edelbrock electronic fuel injection systems give you total engine control... without a laptop computer. The result is excellent throttle response throughout the rpm range, great fuel economy with incredible horsepower, smooth engine operation and improved cold starting. Manifold assemblies, air valves and electronics are built by Magneti Marelli Powertrain USA, a major QS9000-certified OEM supplier. Components are matched and tested as a set, then serial numbers are added for quality control. Small- and big-block Chevy systems come in two configurations; there are two small-block Ford systems and three Chrylser systems as well as two systems now available for AMC/Jeep. Check out Pro-Flo EFI Systems for complete listings and read below about the quality features of the components that are included with Edelbrock Pro-Flo Electronic Fuel Injection Systems...
So since they state it is for non emissions vehicles, they exempt themselves from liability of improper installation. Bet you cound find many of them on the road though...
Quote:
Edelbrock Multi Point EFI Systems Deliver...

* Excellent Throttle Response Throughout the RPM Range
* Great Fuel Economy with Incredible Horsepower
* Smooth Engine Operation and Improved Cold Starting
* A Complete System to Convert to Multi-Point Electronic Fuel Injection
* Includes Everything You Need in One Kit
* Dyno-Tested and Street Proven
* The Most Complete Systems Available for Adding Powerful and Efficient Fuel Injection
* Total Control of Engine Parameters without a Laptop Computer
Hmmm, good fuel economy... kind of a funny thing to state on a non emissions vehicle... Street proven on a non emissions vehicle...
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the other workhorse 92 F350 2wd crew cab,3.55 rear axle, 92 6bt Cummins, NV4500
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Iowa Chapter leader, ASE certified parts specialist
Come on down and join us in the Iowa chapter, or your own local chapter!! Thanks, Roger

Last edited by fellro86; 09-12-2006 at 10:51 PM.
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Old 09-13-2006, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fellro86

Hmmm, good fuel economy... kind of a funny thing to state on a non emissions vehicle... Street proven on a non emissions vehicle...

That must be for those of us who are lucky enough to not have emissions testing.
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Old 09-13-2006, 05:36 PM
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If you want to get down to it, we ALL are supposed to adhere to the Federal emissions rules, it just isn't enforced. I'm in a no emissions area as well, but if it came to across the board testing, many units would be found to be illegal. I won't sit here and tell you I keep everything by the federal rules, but I don't tend to throw that stuff away, because you just never know...
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Old 10-30-2006, 09:42 PM
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On the Flex-Jet-TBI; "is street legal for sale for vehicles manufactured before 1974 or for off road use only". This sounds like it will not pass smog tests.

E-Fire; "until full emmissions testing is completed, they are for enthisiasts and are "for off road use only"". Sounds again like it will not or could not pass smog tests and again they are covering their azz.

Here in Cali even with my 68 CS it doesn't require smogs tests but must have all original smog equipment that was on the vehicle when sold in 68. Again a law that they don't enforce thank you.

Look at our FTE brothers in Phoenix Arizona, a 69 truck must still do smog checks plus they tightened the CO down to below the recorded numbers of when the trucks were brand new. That sucks.
I see it all the time that more people have removed cats on newer including brand new vehicles at my friends muffler shop, this will allow for more push by the government to have all vehicles smog checked in the future reguardless of age. JMO's

Sorry back to the thread.
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Old 10-30-2006, 09:42 PM
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