Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Diesel > Bio-diesel, Propane & Alternative Diesel Engine Fuels
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


Welcome to Ford-Trucks Forums!
Welcome to Ford-Trucks.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Ford-Trucks Forums community today!





 
Reply
 
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 09-09-2006, 10:23 PM
fabmandelux's Avatar
fabmandelux fabmandelux is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Paradise Found!
Posts: 23,192
fabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputation
New Hydrocyclone

Ok, guys, Here is the Hydrocyclone we are using at the Idaho plant. It will handle 30 gallons per min at 30 lbs back-pressure. I've done testing at my shop with it and it works perfectly! Cost.....just under $1,000.



Click the image to open in full size.



FABMANDELUX.
__________________
Oregon Chapter Leader My friends call me Don.
"I always keep a supply of stimulants handy in case I see a snake, which I also keep handy" WC Fields

RIP Steve Price. A true friend and a tireless supporter of FTE
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-09-2006, 11:15 PM
willbd willbd is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Woodburn, OR
Posts: 448
willbd is starting off with a positive reputation.
Question

Is the hydrocyclone used to remove solids form the oil?
__________________
95 F350 SC PSD Auto 4.10 Pro-Tech Aluminum Flatbed with side boxes AutoMeter Transmission and Boost gauges 6637 Filter mod 160K miles B&M 24K Transmission cooler Diamond Eye stainless steel exhaust 2 tank WVO

Bryan Will
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-10-2006, 12:03 AM
fabmandelux's Avatar
fabmandelux fabmandelux is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Paradise Found!
Posts: 23,192
fabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by willbd
Is the hydrocyclone used to remove solids form the oil?

Nope, its used to seperate the glycerol from the Biodiesel.


FABMANDELUX.
__________________
Oregon Chapter Leader My friends call me Don.
"I always keep a supply of stimulants handy in case I see a snake, which I also keep handy" WC Fields

RIP Steve Price. A true friend and a tireless supporter of FTE
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-09-2006, 04:11 PM
maxwellfuels maxwellfuels is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 8
maxwellfuels is starting off with a positive reputation.
Did you say Idaho???

What part?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-09-2006, 04:36 PM
fabmandelux's Avatar
fabmandelux fabmandelux is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Paradise Found!
Posts: 23,192
fabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxwellfuels
Did you say Idaho???

What part?
Yep, Wilder, Idaho


FABMANDELUX.
__________________
Oregon Chapter Leader My friends call me Don.
"I always keep a supply of stimulants handy in case I see a snake, which I also keep handy" WC Fields

RIP Steve Price. A true friend and a tireless supporter of FTE
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-09-2006, 04:40 PM
maxwellfuels maxwellfuels is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 8
maxwellfuels is starting off with a positive reputation.
Thats crazy... I'm over in Boise.

I would love to take a look at your facility.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-09-2006, 04:53 PM
fabmandelux's Avatar
fabmandelux fabmandelux is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Paradise Found!
Posts: 23,192
fabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxwellfuels
Thats crazy... I'm over in Boise.

I would love to take a look at your facility.
Right now we are having "problems" with the local planing commission...........

We were going to use an existing building on-site, but we are now going to build a new building just for Bio production sited about 500' from the main plant. We decided to move the new plant for safety reasons after the other Idaho Bio plant blew up. So far this plant design should be one of the safest, and most productive in the northwest, and all without ANY Gov $$$$

When we do have the plant up and running [next spring] I'll invite you to the Grand Opening


FABMANDELUX.
__________________
Oregon Chapter Leader My friends call me Don.
"I always keep a supply of stimulants handy in case I see a snake, which I also keep handy" WC Fields

RIP Steve Price. A true friend and a tireless supporter of FTE
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-09-2006, 05:00 PM
maxwellfuels maxwellfuels is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 8
maxwellfuels is starting off with a positive reputation.
Sounds like a plan...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-16-2007, 12:26 PM
juancarnuba juancarnuba is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3
juancarnuba is starting off with a positive reputation.
Glycerin separation

Are you able to meet ASTM standards using the hydrocylones only or do you use a centrifuge for the final phase? Also, do you use a hydroclone for separating the wash water from the biodiesel?

juan
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-16-2007, 07:46 PM
fabmandelux's Avatar
fabmandelux fabmandelux is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Paradise Found!
Posts: 23,192
fabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by juancarnuba
Are you able to meet ASTM standards using the hydrocylones only or do you use a centrifuge for the final phase? Also, do you use a hydroclone for separating the wash water from the biodiesel?

juan
Welcome to FTE Juan!

We use the Hydrocyclones for bio-glycerol separation only. We do not use water to wash the fuel. We remove the excess methanol from the biodiesel first, then filter out the soap, and do a final clean up with Magnesol. Our tests have so far exceeded ASTM specs.
__________________
Oregon Chapter Leader My friends call me Don.
"I always keep a supply of stimulants handy in case I see a snake, which I also keep handy" WC Fields

RIP Steve Price. A true friend and a tireless supporter of FTE
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-18-2007, 09:44 AM
Hotwheelbill's Avatar
Hotwheelbill Hotwheelbill is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fernandina Beach, Florida
Posts: 692
Hotwheelbill is starting off with a positive reputation.
Fabmandelux, I wish you could expand to Jacksonville Florida with a plant!! We do not even have a bio station close to us.
__________________
03, CC,F350,DRW,SB,4WD,7.3,AFE II Pro 7,CCV MOD,THREE GAUGES,4739, DP TUNER with Permagrin setting, 5" Cannon, Zodad, AIH Delete, Power Slots, Hawks. TCLUS. Coolant Filter, Sonnix, Fuel Pump Shim.....SOLD
1995 Cummins built trans and turning it up. 2nd gear tire smoke with stock turbo and injectors. Nice truck now, but the motor will one day make it into a Super Duty!!!!
2004 F250 EXCAB SB 4x4 6.0 Coolant filter. CCV reroute. 4" MBRP. Blue fuel spring.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-21-2007, 10:48 PM
Cool6.9DieselGuy Cool6.9DieselGuy is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 167
Cool6.9DieselGuy is starting off with a positive reputation.
no water to clean the fuel? that sounds like a good advantage, I guess youcan get at the glycerol w/ this 1000$ device w/out having to 'wet' your fuel?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-22-2007, 10:07 AM
fabmandelux's Avatar
fabmandelux fabmandelux is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Paradise Found!
Posts: 23,192
fabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool6.9DieselGuy
no water to clean the fuel? that sounds like a good advantage, I guess youcan get at the glycerol w/ this 1000$ device w/out having to 'wet' your fuel?
The Hydrocyclone works great for glycerol removal in both commercial plants I've designed.......BUT is very sensitive to the in-feed source. I don't think it's use will have much of a following in the "home-brew" crowd, unless you are using virgin oil. Non-water washing on the other hand, is very doable on a home scale, and produces a much better bio with less chance of Oxidation, and a 0 chance of emulsions. I have a Gas Chromatograph and have tested water-washed, and dri-washed bio. The dri-washed bio has consistently exceeded ASTM specs, but the water-washed bio has had about a 40% failure rate.
__________________
Oregon Chapter Leader My friends call me Don.
"I always keep a supply of stimulants handy in case I see a snake, which I also keep handy" WC Fields

RIP Steve Price. A true friend and a tireless supporter of FTE
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-23-2007, 09:36 AM
juancarnuba juancarnuba is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3
juancarnuba is starting off with a positive reputation.
Fabmandelux,
Thanks for the response. Another post of yours indicated that you don't use hydrocyclones to separate any solids out of the batch. I looked at the diagram of your plant and wondered why you wouldn't use a liquid/solid type hydrocyclone to remove the magnesol before the final filter. Like a desander type of hydrocyclone. Since decanter type centrifuges are used to remove Magnesol this would seem like a no brainer. I haven't used Magnesol yet, but I'm thinking of switching to avoid any oxidation of the BD and waste effluent. Do you know what size particles the Magnesol is? Less than 10 microns?
I would think that different types of hydrocyclones at different stages of the process would benefit the automation of the batch process. 1 liquid/solid HC to filter out any large heavies and possibly water from the WVO before esterification and transesterification, a liquid/liquid HC to separated out the glycerin, and either a liquid/liquid HC if you're doing a water wash or a liquid/solid HC to separate out the Magnesol.
Unfortunately, it seems that the flow rates for manufactured hydrocyclones starts a rate too high for your typical homebrewer. This weekend we're going to try and make a small one that will handle about 5 gpm out of some 316 stainless pipe and fittings that are just lying around and welding up the volute and a small sump for the bottom of the HC. I'll let you know how things go.

your pal,

Juan
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-23-2007, 10:04 AM
fabmandelux's Avatar
fabmandelux fabmandelux is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Paradise Found!
Posts: 23,192
fabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputationfabmandelux has a superb reputation
Good morning Juan! Using a $5 bag filter for removing the Magnesol is a lot cheaper than a $1,000 Hydrocyclone! I use a different system for removing the solids from the oil than a HC also because of cost mainly.

The 2 commercial plants I've designed so far use the HCs mainly to remove the glycerol faster because there doing 500 gallons per hour instead of 100 gallons per hour. The oil that goes into these plants has no particles in it to separate out, so they are not needed.

I don't use a hydro-cyclone for my system because I am using waste restaurant oil as a feed stock, and they are VERY sensitive to the in-feed. I found out the hard way that what my friend Dr VonGerpin told me about using them on WVO was problematic, Just to sensitive............

I use a 5 micron bag filter to remove the Magnesol, and then a 1 micron final filter. I very seldom find anything in the 1 micron filter, I just use it to make me feel better!

I don't think a HC would work with a waterwash system. I think the potential for forming an emulsion would be to great...........
__________________
Oregon Chapter Leader My friends call me Don.
"I always keep a supply of stimulants handy in case I see a snake, which I also keep handy" WC Fields

RIP Steve Price. A true friend and a tireless supporter of FTE

Last edited by fabmandelux; 02-23-2007 at 10:07 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2007, 10:04 AM
 
 
 
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
It's Buck Season!!! fabmandelux General NON-Automotive Conversation 6 10-06-2009 01:08 PM
It cleaned up pretty good! fabmandelux Oregon Chapter 11 05-11-2009 10:46 PM
Off to Idaho! fabmandelux Bio-diesel, Propane & Alternative Diesel Engine Fuels 1 08-05-2006 09:12 PM
Fabman Equip Update fabmandelux Bio-diesel, Propane & Alternative Diesel Engine Fuels 37 04-04-2006 07:52 PM
Hydrocyclone Update fabmandelux Bio-diesel, Propane & Alternative Diesel Engine Fuels 5 03-12-2006 03:04 PM


Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Diesel > Bio-diesel, Propane & Alternative Diesel Engine Fuels

Tags
biodiesel, diesel, efluent, filter, forum, glycerol, gph, hydrocyclone, hydrocyclones, hydrocylones, magnesol, separation, type, wash, wvo

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertising - Terms of Use - Privacy Statement - Jobs
This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. FordŽ is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.

vbulletin Admin Backup