I had an old-timer tell me of a flat head ford they raced on oval tracks in the 50s - It had a Norton crank, which was offset such that two cylinders fired at the same time.

Norton made industrial air compressors, and this crank was normally used to make the flathead V8 into a V4, with the other 4 cylinders used for pumping air. Hot rods would use this crank with a special ground cam -

He said it sounded like a Model A 4 cylinder, but had lots of torque. It provided enough jump off the high side of a corner to capture the low side grove for the straight.

The only downside was that on tracks that only allowed one carb, the intake was too restricted for top end running. A fellow FTE member confirmed this to me, but said they normally ran 3 two barrel carbs with a Norton crank.

He had a friend that ran one for several seasons in the early 50s.

I would like to track down more information on this - stories, technical info, that sort of thing. It would be a fun article to write.

Anybody know anything about it?

One basic thing does puzzle me - why would two cylinders firing at the same time be better than two cylinders firing 180 degrees from each other? Anybody know?

 

I'll have to ask my old hotrod friend, he's 77, still crews on a nitro digger running a flattie. He may be gone as the salt flats call him back every year. He can identify any Ford part from T to 50 Merc and tell you what fits for a streetrod. With 55 years rebuilding radiators and customs for streetrods he forgot what most wish they knew. Will get back when I connect with him.
I have seen the 302 used as a 4 cylinder with a special head also a portable compressor. The use the same dizzy cap and ground out the compressor bank.

.....=o&o>.....

 

Beemer, I was at the Salt Flats - it could have been him who told me about it! Please do contact him, and also find out if he is going back in Oct. I hope to be there then.

 

George Atto (little George) looks like a thin 5' nothing Hawaiian.
He saw Al Tiegue run that 435 mph piston record around 7 years ago.
A family friend going on 50 years. He always had Merc's and a clean 31 Vickie.

.....=o&o>.....

 

Could be - was a short Hawaiian there, (I was sitting in his chair!) but it was the taller of the pair that was telling me about the Norton. I did get to meet (along with 500 other guys) Tiegue - very approachable, nice guy.

That is why I liked Speed Week so much - no snobs, or factory teams. Guys pushing a home-built with a rental truck have the same chance of breaking a record. All the teams were just regular people who enjoy the sport - and love to talk about it!

 

WillyB
I believe it was Nordon or Nordlon that built the Flatcrank.

I remember several of the local Stockcars running these cranks on the Stadium Circuit during the 50's (Tracks around the High School Football fields). Some guys claimed they were not worth it, others say they were the Cat's Butt, I know that one of the guys that ran it was the Champ for many years running, He also cheated anyway he could.
I'v been trying to get a crank and cam off one of these Ol' Farts for several years just to have one.

Here's an interesting link on the theory add you'll find some surprises.

http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...ne/smooth4.htm

 

Thanks - you are correct, it is Nordon. Norton made good repair software before it changed its name to Symantec - it sort of pops out whenever I type Nor . . .

The article you posted the link to - thank you - says the advantage of the flat-plane crank is that it needs no large counterweight. They say the counterweight adds weight to the engine and adds to the rotational inertia. No less than Ferrari and Lotus run the flat-plane cranks in their V8s.

I will have to study it a bit more to fully understand how it works, but the big idea is a more responsive and higher RPM engine - just what you want if you are going for a top end speed record using a flathead.

The only real disadvantage is that it makes your V8 sound like a rice grinder 4 cylinder!

 

***** B; I just got off the phone with "little George" he was busy and in a rush as they have to work on the flattie digger for next weekend.
He just got back from the salt flats, his friend had a 32 Highboy with Howell heads that ran ok on the dyno and at the salt sheared the torque converter studs. "Oh well there is next year".
On the 180 cranks he said they are still being used these days with good results. I'll try to connect with him this week before he leaves for the drags, keep ya posted.

.....=o&o>.....

 

Nothing to add here. I just liked the thread and found it very interesting reading and wanted to be subscribed to it.

*****,
sounds like a good time was had a speedweek! Cool!

Bobby

 

Bobby,

I can not express just how much I enjoyed SpeedWeek, except to say I will be back. There was 3 to 5 thousand gearheads milling around the startline and the pits all day long, for several days in a row. Everyone wanted to talk - I met so many people my head spins. I spent an afternoon with an old guy from Connecticut that had driven a 32 Ford with a 392 hemi out - so I even heard East Coast race stories.

Of course, the meet was set up by the Southern California Timing Association so there were all the hot rod legends there. Not the TV personalities, but the nuts and bolt guys who made the sport.

I backed my jeep cherokee wagon in alongside the starting line, opened the endgate for shade, and set out a couple of lawn chairs. I had the AM radio on, listening to the live broadcast of the meet. There was always a crowd around and a couple of old guys sitting, telling stories and answering questions. It was GREAT!

I am working on the pictures I took, and will post some stories on my website. I have attached a couple of pictures I think you might like, and have a couple more posted in this thread: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...heir-toys.html

 

Clint,, I've never heard of these 180* cranks, but I am very interested. My limited knowledge of engine balancing tells me that the 180* crank would need more balance weight than the normal configuration. Jag

 

Wow I used to have access to one of those old compressors. It looked like a flatty but had pipe plugs in the rght side head, a funky looking intake to one side, and pipe threaded exhaust ports on the right side. I was told it was used as an airator for the lake where I work. I should have nabbed it when I had the chance its been recycled into honda cars.

 

cobraguy, the email function is not working today so forgive this personal message - but please email me back with any information or anything you remember about this compressor. A discription, how it sounded when running, any techmical books, all would be helpful.

cw1890 (at) earthlink (dot) net
or you can email me at this website www.old-fords.com - just send to Clint at

thanks
Clint

 

***** it was over 10yrs ago. and some of the parts were missing. I do remember the engine side intake manifold was missing as was the distrbutor, coil box and plug wires. the compressor side had what looked like a flatty manifold that had been split down the middle but the air horn was all the way to the front with a big brillopad type filter. The discharge piping was galvanized pipe screwed right into the exhaust ports on the block. There was a brush fire in 96 that toasted it pretty good and it got hauled away sometime after that.

 

I used to have a pic of a flathead-based compressor, this was all I could find.