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Old 08-18-2006, 11:21 PM
roadbike21 roadbike21 is offline
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Cost of Bio-diesel production???

How much are you guys producing your biodiesel for?? after all of your chemicals are paid for how much per gallon are you guys producing your biodiesel for. i am not meaning for you to include your time or energy costs or equipment costs, just chemicals, how much are you guys able to produce this stuff for per gallon. i have heard people saying they can produce this stuff for as little as 50 cents per gallon and I cannot imgaine how thye are doing this. my calculations come up to a little over $2 a gallon. is there anyway to make this stuff cheaper or more efficiently. thanks for your help in advance.
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Old 08-19-2006, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by roadbike21
How much are you guys producing your biodiesel for?? after all of your chemicals are paid for how much per gallon are you guys producing your biodiesel for. i am not meaning for you to include your time or energy costs or equipment costs, just chemicals, how much are you guys able to produce this stuff for per gallon. i have heard people saying they can produce this stuff for as little as 50 cents per gallon and I cannot imgaine how thye are doing this. my calculations come up to a little over $2 a gallon. is there anyway to make this stuff cheaper or more efficiently. thanks for your help in advance.
My costs for chemicals comes out to $.48 per gallon. I do recover about 30 percent of my Methanol, which cuts my costs.

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Old 08-19-2006, 01:37 PM
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hey fabman thats what i have heard everyone say is that they get their chemicals for about 48 cents a gallon. do i just need to keep looking for cheaper chemicals or does recovering your methanol save you that extra $1.50? how much does it cost you to buy a 55 gallon drum of methanol??? how hard is it to recover your methanol?? is there a good web page i can look at to help me learn how to do it?? thanks alot for your advice i really appreciate it alot.
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Old 08-19-2006, 06:11 PM
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hey fabman thats what i have heard everyone say is that they get their chemicals for about 48 cents a gallon. do i just need to keep looking for cheaper chemicals or does recovering your methanol save you that extra $1.50? how much does it cost you to buy a 55 gallon drum of methanol??? how hard is it to recover your methanol?? is there a good web page i can look at to help me learn how to do it?? thanks alot for your advice i really appreciate it alot.
Keep looking........I pay $112.20/ 55 gallon drum or $612.00 for a 300 gallon tote. My KOH costs $.75/pound. I recover about 30 percent from my Glycerol, and now recover another 15 percent from my Biodiesel. You can see a picture of my Methanol "still" in my gallery. I am now changing over to vacume recovery, which will use less energy,and be a lot faster.

There are not a lot of homebrewers recovering their Methanol, but I think I have a couple of sites. I'll try and find them and post them here.

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Old 08-19-2006, 09:35 PM
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Ive posted my finding at 74 cents per gallon before recouping. I just cant find my own link. Huh.
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Old 08-19-2006, 11:17 PM
roadbike21 roadbike21 is offline
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i pay $120/gallon of methanol, maybe I am doing my math wrong or something, but i believe at that price I can make this bio stuff for about $2 a gallon. what am i doing wrong fabman, i make 60 gallons at a time, i use about 13 gallons of methanol per 60 gallons of oil, if i am figuring correct that comes out to about $2 a gallon, how am i not making this stuff for 48-74 cents per gallon. am i using too much methanol, or just doing my math wrong, thanks for your help
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Old 08-20-2006, 12:00 AM
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Here is a simple formula that fabman gave me......25 gallons of used veggie oil heat to 150 degrees
25 gallons of oil ==== free
5 gallons of methanol---at 3 bucks easy = $15
Potasium hydroxide was less than a buck a lb

5 gallons of methanol mixed with 3 lbs of Potassium hydroxide mix for 1/2 to hour...then add to the 150 degree oil. Mix that for an hour and pull to holding tank and let settle.

Try and stay away from sodium hydroxide aka lye because your byproduct is harder to work with and get rid of. If you do its 2lbs per 5 gallons if you want to use but you will be happier with pot. Check my threads. Troy
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Old 08-20-2006, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadbike21
i pay $120/gallon of methanol, maybe I am doing my math wrong or something, but i believe at that price I can make this bio stuff for about $2 a gallon. what am i doing wrong fabman, i make 60 gallons at a time, i use about 13 gallons of methanol per 60 gallons of oil, if i am figuring correct that comes out to about $2 a gallon, how am i not making this stuff for 48-74 cents per gallon. am i using too much methanol, or just doing my math wrong, thanks for your help
My figures: 25 gal oil= FREE
5 gallons Methanol = $10.02
3 lbs KOH=$2.25
Total cost = $12.27
40 % Meth recovery= $4.08
Total cost = $8.19 divided by 25 gall of Biodiesel = $.32 per gallon.

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Old 08-20-2006, 08:17 PM
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Methanol if I'm correct should be the same price as regular unleaded gasoline. I think I bought mine at 2.88 a gal. But Fab's pretty smart he recovers the most of the methanol which is the most expensive ingredent. But it should be .80-.90 a gal if you buy the supplies right. I bought 5 gals and they charged my 7.00 when I bought 55 gals it was 2.88. Just like anything, buy in bulk you'll save.
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Old 08-20-2006, 08:43 PM
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I used to buy 4- 55 gallon barrels at a time at about $2.08 per gallon. Now I buy a 300 gallon tote for $612.00 which is $2.04 per gallon. The new plant in Idaho will buy at $1.40 per gallon, 8,000 gallons at a time. The more you buy the cheaper it is.

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Old 08-22-2006, 12:52 PM
roadbike21 roadbike21 is offline
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Hey fabman that formula you gave me earlier for how much methanol and KOH to use with each batch of 25 gallons of oil. Is that a rough estimate you gave me or is that your exact recipe everytime?? Do you still titrate your oil to find the exact or is that formula you gave me a cure all formula?? I have been reading about guys that are not titrating their oil and are just overloading the reaction i guess you could say and thus eliminating titrations. I respect your opinion alot and just wanted to know what you were doing and if this formula was indeed a cure all formula or just a rough estimate and i still need to titrate my oil. Thanks fabman.
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Old 08-22-2006, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadbike21
Hey fabman that formula you gave me earlier for how much methanol and KOH to use with each batch of 25 gallons of oil. Is that a rough estimate you gave me or is that your exact recipe everytime?? Do you still titrate your oil to find the exact or is that formula you gave me a cure all formula?? I have been reading about guys that are not titrating their oil and are just overloading the reaction i guess you could say and thus eliminating titrations. I respect your opinion alot and just wanted to know what you were doing and if this formula was indeed a cure all formula or just a rough estimate and i still need to titrate my oil. Thanks fabman.
Titration will shave your costs very little, and IMHO is a waste of time. When I first started 3 years ago I titrated 2 or 3 times for each batch, and seperated my oils. I found that my titrations were very close and required little change, so I "overloaded" by about 10 percent, and started blending all my oils together.

Ever since then I've used the same formula and have not had a bad batch yet. Both the 2 samples I sent in for testing used the same ratio, and made ASTM specs. It is possible to create excess soap this way if you go to far, but I've found that by recovering the Methanol from my Biodiesel first, that the soap falls out of suspension, and is easier to clean with Magnesol.

I made a lot of 1 ltr samples with varying amounts of KOH till I came up with one that would react the same every time and have not titrated in 2 1/2 years.

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Old 08-23-2006, 01:01 AM
roadbike21 roadbike21 is offline
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so do I need to make alot of 1 liter samples like you did and test my oil or can i simply use your formula that you have worked so hard on and thus save me time from having to make all those test batches. i mean can i put 25 gallons of oil, 5 gallons of methanol, and 3 lbs of KOH with my oil I have and get a clean batch almost every time? i agree that if it doesnt save you ALOT of money and if you are going to recover your methanol anyway, titrating sure seems like a HUGE waste of time. thanks for the help fabman.
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Old 08-23-2006, 01:08 AM
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i meant to ask you in my last reply, but how do you recover methanol from your bio and glycerine??? then my second question is what on earth is magnesol, where do I get it and what does it take the place of?? how do i clean with magnesol?? I have never heard of this stuff. thanks again for your patience and help fabman
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Old 08-23-2006, 07:36 AM
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I would recommend trying at least 1 test batch, and see if the ratio works for your oil. I built a still to recover the Methanol from my Glycerol, you can see a picture of it in my gallery. I am switching over to vacume recovery for both the Biodiesel and the glycerol.

If you recover the Methanol from your bio, most of the soap will fall out of suspension and can be filtered out. Removing the soap helps in cutting down on the amount of Magnesol required for the final cleaning.

You can find out about Magnesol here: http://www.dallasgrp.com/bioart1.pdf
And here: http://www.dallasgrp.com/biodiesel.pdf
Small amounts for "home-brewers" can be bought here: http://www.fryerpower.com/store/page1.html

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Old 08-23-2006, 07:36 AM
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