sounds more like 2 trolls came down again from posts 4,5,8 and 9.
hay stay up stairs we don't to listen to psd bs. been there had them don't want them again. another at least we tell the truth about our mpgs. mostly 13 or 14 with a now and then 15 to 16 under the best conditions as the best tank loads.
now as to mpgs! i don't give a flamer about it. as my v10 can do the same work as a diesel when loaded . with out making all that noise. plus i can hear my wife and radio when it's turned down low and at the same time hear the road around me.
sorry guys but at my age and retired from fixing what you diesel lovers break every day. i plainly don't want to hear the bs that comes from some of you guys.
There's no trolls here, you're just overly paranoid. And it sounds like you're completely close minded when it comes to honest discussions. Grow up.
In regards to the diesel engines out there now...the reason they are getting only 15/17 mpg is due to the power. If FORD would reduce the hp and torque ratings, then the mpg would increase. What is more important right now anyway? IMHO...it is mpg not hp/torque. Especially in the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. The 7.3L did the job just fine...and more reliable too. With an added bonus of better mpg.
I gotta ask, what? Turn the HP down on a diesel to get better fuel economy? yeah right. Sorry I drive semi's when I owned my own I was a contractor for a local grocery store chain, they had the 12.7 detroits set at 350hp, I had a 12.7 set at 470, my truck was 4000lbs heavier, same gearing and on some same trans, they got an average of 5.9mpg (corperate fuel average as per thier ifta reports) I got a quarterly average of 7.1mpg when I was hauling thier trailers got a lot less hauling my own usually about 6mpg but I hauled heavy and wide so not good for fuel economy.
As to the PSD, I have seen 22mpg, no I won't say consistantly, I said I have seen that mileage, usually running about 63mph unloaded on a hiway using cc. Most times I get 17-19hwy, 14-16 mixed or city driving. The worst fuel economy I got with this truck was pulling 14,500lbs running 70mph and it got 10.8mpg, and yes I have a tuner on it (usually set at 40hp for towing), I have aftermarket 4" exhaust, and a free flowing airfilter setup.
Is the V10 a good engine? by all means. I have a friend that has a 2000 F250 extended cab short box (mine is extended cab long box) both 4x4s we have ran together and he can usually keep up pretty good right up till he hollers at me on the radio that he needs to stop for fuel, I usually have slightly over 1/4 tank left.
Oh and biodiesel actually did improve my mileage so far it might put my average hiway mileage up right at or slightly above 20 by the looks of it but only on my third tank so the final mileage is still suspect but it's bieng pretty consistant.
Not what I've heard and read about E85. BIG drop in mileage. As for more power, that I doubt. Yea, the octane rating's a lot higher, but more octane doesn't make more power unless the comp ratio can be substantially raised or timing can be advanced far enough to take advantage of the knock resistence. Mileage drop I've heard is about 30-40%. Alcohol just doesn't have the BTU content of straight gasoline.
AGAIN, what you are talking about does not apply to the FORD V10 6.8L 2v or 3v Modular engine. E85 is NOT recommended period. You are shooting blanks my friend...
As to the 30-40% mileage drop...that is hilarious! You have a good sense of humor to post nonsense like that. Funny.
The only vehicles that can run E85 are the FLEX vehicles. That also goes without saying...that they are specifically setup for the E85. Meaning they can advance the timing to compensate for the higher octane. That is how they are designed. More detail to the FLEX vehicle, but I'll let you go research it on your dime.
biz
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2003 F250 SD SC 142" XLT FX4 V10 Auto 4x4 3.73s
I gotta ask, what? Turn the HP down on a diesel to get better fuel economy? yeah right. Sorry I drive semi's when I owned my own I was a contractor for a local grocery store chain, they had the 12.7 detroits set at 350hp, I had a 12.7 set at 470, my truck was 4000lbs heavier, same gearing and on some same trans, they got an average of 5.9mpg (corperate fuel average as per thier ifta reports) I got a quarterly average of 7.1mpg when I was hauling thier trailers got a lot less hauling my own usually about 6mpg but I hauled heavy and wide so not good for fuel economy.
I was talking about 3/4 and 1 ton pickups. I cannot talk about your semi's or what the ifta reports had listed. Who knows, maybe you are a better driver than the corporate drivers? Maybe you kept your semi tractor better maintained? A lot of what a "truck" will do and not do is based on the driver. So, with that logic...I believe you got better mileage with a higher hp detroit than the corporate folks. But that does not have anything to do with the hp itself, rather that you were a better driver and kept a better maintained rig. (OBTW: That is a compliment)
Quote:
As to the PSD, I have seen 22mpg, no I won't say consistantly, I said I have seen that mileage, usually running about 63mph unloaded on a hiway using cc. Most times I get 17-19hwy, 14-16 mixed or city driving. The worst fuel economy I got with this truck was pulling 14,500lbs running 70mph and it got 10.8mpg, and yes I have a tuner on it (usually set at 40hp for towing), I have aftermarket 4" exhaust, and a free flowing airfilter setup.
Is the V10 a good engine? by all means. I have a friend that has a 2000 F250 extended cab short box (mine is extended cab long box) both 4x4s we have ran together and he can usually keep up pretty good right up till he hollers at me on the radio that he needs to stop for fuel, I usually have slightly over 1/4 tank left.
Oh and biodiesel actually did improve my mileage so far it might put my average hiway mileage up right at or slightly above 20 by the looks of it but only on my third tank so the final mileage is still suspect but it's bieng pretty consistant.
Ok, so you get better mileage now with ALL the upgrades. However...as a bone stock diesel owner, then your mileage would not really be all that much better. Pay $5000+ for the diesel to begin with...now add an additional $1000+ (guessing here) for the upgrades. WOW...that is a lot of change to throw around. I prefer to stick with the V10 in STOCK base...and keep that $6000+ for gas. The only way that pays off...is if you go at least 300,000+ problem free miles.
biz
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2003 F250 SD SC 142" XLT FX4 V10 Auto 4x4 3.73s
Thank you for the compliment, but detroit will tell you that the 470hp setting atleast on the ddecIII series 12.7s was the best fuel economy. As to the psd, it's a proven fact most of the time when a chip is added the fuel economy goes up (minus the lead foot of coarse). A diesel just doesn't act like a gasser at all, I have both, and have been a mechanic on both but they are completly 2 different animals. NOw of coarse yes there is a break point at which you will start to see a decline, but the factory hp settings on the PSD isn't anywhere near that break point yet, and I am not sure where that point actually is. But on a gas the more you push them for hp, the more gas they burn, it's the nature of the beast, I had a 460 in a 79 truck basically stock with some minor things like an intake and headers, got 12mpg with it all day long and could pull anything with it, I now have a stroker version of the 460 puts out close to 900hp and burns a gallon of gas in 4 seconds, I realize thats an extreme example but I have heard of (and this is second hand info, just to get that out right now so I don't have proof so take it with a grain of salt) that one guy has a cummins that is pushing the 800hp level and is getting around 16mpg if he keeps his foot out of it, yet the stock hp of 265 I think, and he was getting about 17 so an increase of close to the same as my 460 example in a diesel didn't drop the mileage nearly as bad even though obviously he wasn't going for economy with that engine.
As to the original post and questions, I think the reason you see such a difference in the mileage in the PSD, VS teh V10 is the psd is much more affected by drivers, and by mods than the V10 also I feel the mods for the PSD are actually putting the engine into an area it was actually built to run in wereas the V10 was actually built to run in the ford trucks, and a gas engine is just going to get a certian mileage.
edit Biz no I don't have quit $1000 into mods on my truck some of them are actually pretty cheap, like I changed to a 6637 air filter, cost about $25, and a scrape piece of 4" exhaust pipe,a nd one hose clamp. I need to change my air filter anyway and this one lasts over twice as long as a stock one that costs $18 so it's actually saving me money, and still improving my fuel economy as well as doing a better job of filtering the air. I also did the pre pump fuel line change to get it to stop sucking air, costs about $50, and makes the truck run quieter and better as well as protects my injectors, once again probably a expense saver in the end. As to the exhaust, I feel ANY stock engine can benifit from getting an aftermarket or free breathing exhaust system put on them, the factory stuff is just too restrictive. As to whether the diesel is worth it, well I probably will own this truck till I die, the 6.0, and the new 6.4 look like major headaches with the epa mandated emissions controls, and the new 08 models you can add another $8000 on top of the already higher price for the diesel, my truck has 102,000 on it now and the only part I have had to replace was the altenator, which that is one that doesn't matter gas or diesel they wear out, and the batteries well same thing, after about 5yrs they need replaced but on the engine itself I don't have any problems (knock on wood).
You are happy with your V10, and I support that, heck atleast your smart enough to drive a ford, that in and of itself says your an intelligent person. I don't want any of you guys to think I came into this forum to bash on you in any way I didn't just wanted to reply since I saw the PSD mentioned.
The one thing that is absolutly killing me with fuel economy expecially with the gas engines is this, back in the 70s and 80s I used to run a lot of early 70s ford 4x4s, usually with big blocks, 390s, 460s, 429s, and some small blocks too, and even had a chev 1 ton with a 454 in it, and without exception I could get any of them to see 12-14mpg easily enough,(as long as I kept my foot out of them) now with 30 yrs of technology behind them, and all the computor controls, they are getting what? 13-15, and my wife's expy with a 5.4 sees 12 in town 15 hiway, I just don't see we have advanced much in 30 yrs
Sorry for writting a book, guess I am long winded sometimes.
Monster- interesting you'd post about the mileage on the older rigs. I think it's a balancing act- the emissions take away efficiency, but we've gained it back through technology.So we're cleaner than we were 30 years ago,with comparable mileage and power. That's gas motors.
Diesels? I'd never tell a customer a SD will get 20- 16 to 18 seems more the norm. 12-14 in a V10, but the diesel will out-pull the V10, so that's part of the equation. We are noticing in the D-max that mileage has gone down as power goes up. The Duramax used to get a good 4-5 mpg better than a PSD, now it's about a wash between the two.
The one thing that is absolutly killing me with fuel economy expecially with the gas engines is this, back in the 70s and 80s I used to run a lot of early 70s ford 4x4s, usually with big blocks, 390s, 460s, 429s, and some small blocks too, and even had a chev 1 ton with a 454 in it, and without exception I could get any of them to see 12-14mpg easily enough,(as long as I kept my foot out of them) now with 30 yrs of technology behind them, and all the computor controls, they are getting what? 13-15, and my wife's expy with a 5.4 sees 12 in town 15 hiway, I just don't see we have advanced much in 30 yrs
Weight... thats pretty much it.
As for the fluctuation in mileage. Its a complicated thing - but driving style has a LOT to do with it. Diesels are far more sensitive to it than gassers are.
For example my diesel Ranger - everyone asks me what mileage I get with it, expecting above 30... last tank I got 22mpg. (empty - no trailer)
Now, someone could say, there is a problem there... there ain't. It has 4.44 gears - sits at 2700rpms at 60mph, and I drive it like it isn't mine...
My mom has a VW golf TDI (a hatch version of the Jetta). My mom gets better than 60mpg with it regularly. In my hands it gets about 30mpg (hey, the little car HAULS).
Now, my ute (DOHC 5.4) I get around 17mpg with (even thrashing it). My father drives it regularly (featherfoot) and gets 18mpg...
It has a lot to do with smaller rotating mass, and the fact that gas engines best operating efficiency (power output for gas input) is ABOVE normal operating rpms.
Diesels operating efficiency is usually AT your normal rpms.
There's no trolls here, you're just overly paranoid. And it sounds like you're completely close minded when it comes to honest discussions. Grow up.
i am really very open minded .i and others never go up into diesel 6.0 or 7.3 and start up diesel bs like you and a few others are right now. get the hint. don't talk smoker/stinker down here. you grow up!
we stay down here and talk amounst our selfs. rarely talk about our past problems with the 6.0. that made us return to a big gas motor that works every day doing the very same work your stinker does. in fact we very rarely talk about smokers at all. when it is! it's some new guy from stinker land that comes down and starts it. he usally gets flamed out and leaves
sorry but when you come into performance v10. you best be ready to be blasted about the shop prone break apart psd. yeh! i had one! also had a pos dodge. so did many others in here. and most will say never again. just happens I'm one of them . i have hauled loads as big if not bigger then. i can count the work my truck has been in the dealer shop for in HOURS! not days. all on the fingers of one hand and still have fingers left to count further. bet you can't.
another i also dove semi rig cross country for a company that was known as CARRETTA trucking from paramus new jersey. drove a salt and pepper team to the some of 2 million miles. sure it's a diesel. but a much different breed of diesel. not a small displacement converated school bus motor that just happens to fit a pickups engine bay. and goosed to all heck and back to start with. Remember the cat 1693 ta 425hp dohc, or the cummins kta 500 or 600hp monster motors. thats what i had for power after a few dd's out of which the one's i like'd best were the 12v71 tta 525 followed by a 425 hp 8v92 tia."the marine/boat best ever motors."
lets not forget those motors had very big cubic inches and numbers in what counts TORQUE! remember a cummins 350/400hp is still 855 c.i.'s
Big rig motors! are that big rig. big cubic inchs. you can't compair them to a 366 inch pick up motor. mpg's all the big rigs i drove. we got 7.0 to 7.4 as steady mpgs and i mean steady.mpg's. that comes from how they are driven "rpm range" and conditions like weather. load, road suface drag. sure i had days when it dropped to 5 but that was not the norm as we got paid extra for mpg's on a run from the dirty side to the shakie side and back. so we ran long , never pushed hard.
another fact most of my life .i worked as a dealer or factory mechanic tech. while i worked mostly for vw ,i also worked for ford. held second jobs working for cummins metro power and penski detriot diesel when the dd was a real dd not a MB motor plastered with dd lables like now since MB purchased the company. along with manys others like freightiner and western star.
i have also owned several big boats with real diesels pushing them. a 52 ft with a pair of 903 ta cumaparts. a 48 ocean with a pair of 6-71 tibs at 485hp each. the cummins are just what they were cumaparts. the 6-71s ran them so the boat could sip fuel. stay out for days and come back with fuel in my tank left over. but still for how far out they were pushed for hp they could only run 1000 hours before needing to be freshened up on the top end due to burn't pistons from to much fuel. i also ran a boat for it's owner that had 2- 3196 600 something hp cats those motors could use fuel big time. i'm talking 80 gals a hour.
so yah i speak stinker!. i just don't want to nor hear about them down here in a area that is great. we talk about how our motor stands up and how it works for the fact that it burns gas . my 05/ v10 has had many a loaded trailer on it with 8 k inside or on it. it's done the same work with less noise. no smelly fuel. a radio whose volume i can hear when it's turned down. even my wife like it's better..
get my point now. it's not the fuel that dose the work.Brass tacks fact it's the cubic inches and the number one fact TORQUE doing the work.
Are you talking a stock diesel or one with tuners and/or other non factory add ons ?
ARe you talking the 3 valve V-10 compared to the 6.0? I guess if you are, I would have to disagree. There isn't a stock Power stroker in SW Iowa that can out pull my bone stock V-10.
Maybe in fuel economy they beat me out, but diesel at $2.859/gallon, whereas ethanol E-10 is at $2.699/gallon; so if they get 10% better mileage than I do, they are still paying the same as I for their fuel per mile driven. And I am not counting all the other maintenance expense they pay that I don't.
Maybe I am missing something here?
And Capt Chas, I'm, with you. There is no substitute for cubic inches in pulling power. The old big cam III, 855ci-400 hp cummins Was and still is hard to beat. Some drivers get 5 mpg and others claim 6.5 mpg from the same motor. It is all in the driver.
i am really very open minded .i and others never go up into diesel 6.0 or 7.3 and start up diesel bs like you and a few others are right now. get the hint. don't talk smoker/stinker down here. you grow up!
we stay down here and talk amounst our selfs. rarely talk about our past problems with the 6.0. that made us return to a big gas motor that works every day doing the very same work your stinker does. in fact we very rarely talk about smokers at all. when it is! it's some new guy from stinker land that comes down and starts it. he usally gets flamed out and leaves
sorry but when you come into performance v10. you best be ready to be blasted about the shop prone break apart psd. yeh! i had one! also had a pos dodge. so did many others in here. and most will say never again. just happens I'm one of them . i have hauled loads as big if not bigger then. i can count the work my truck has been in the dealer shop for in HOURS! not days. all on the fingers of one hand and still have fingers left to count further. bet you can't.
another i also dove semi rig cross country for a company that was known as CARRETTA trucking from paramus new jersey. drove a salt and pepper team to the some of 2 million miles. sure it's a diesel. but a much different breed of diesel. not a small displacement converated school bus motor that just happens to fit a pickups engine bay. and goosed to all heck and back to start with. Remember the cat 1693 ta 425hp dohc, or the cummins kta 500 or 600hp monster motors. thats what i had for power after a few dd's out of which the one's i like'd best were the 12v71 tta 525 followed by a 425 hp 8v92 tia."the marine/boat best ever motors."
lets not forget those motors had very big cubic inches and numbers in what counts TORQUE! remember a cummins 350/400hp is still 855 c.i.'s
Big rig motors! are that big rig. big cubic inchs. you can't compair them to a 366 inch pick up motor. mpg's all the big rigs i drove. we got 7.0 to 7.4 as steady mpgs and i mean steady.mpg's. that comes from how they are driven "rpm range" and conditions like weather. load, road suface drag. sure i had days when it dropped to 5 but that was not the norm as we got paid extra for mpg's on a run from the dirty side to the shakie side and back. so we ran long , never pushed hard.
another fact most of my life .i worked as a dealer or factory mechanic tech. while i worked mostly for vw ,i also worked for ford. held second jobs working for cummins metro power and penski detriot diesel when the dd was a real dd not a MB motor plastered with dd lables like now since MB purchased the company. along with manys others like freightiner and western star.
i have also owned several big boats with real diesels pushing them. a 52 ft with a pair of 903 ta cumaparts. a 48 ocean with a pair of 6-71 tibs at 485hp each. the cummins are just what they were cumaparts. the 6-71s ran them so the boat could sip fuel. stay out for days and come back with fuel in my tank left over. but still for how far out they were pushed for hp they could only run 1000 hours before needing to be freshened up on the top end due to burn't pistons from to much fuel. i also ran a boat for it's owner that had 2- 3196 600 something hp cats those motors could use fuel big time. i'm talking 80 gals a hour.
so yah i speak stinker!. i just don't want to nor hear about them down here in a area that is great. we talk about how our motor stands up and how it works for the fact that it burns gas . my 05/ v10 has had many a loaded trailer on it with 8 k inside or on it. it's done the same work with less noise. no smelly fuel. a radio whose volume i can hear when it's turned down. even my wife like it's better..
get my point now. it's not the fuel that dose the work.Brass tacks fact it's the cubic inches and the number one fact TORQUE doing the work.
With a 2 page reply to a one liner......... yea, I'd say you're definately paranoid. And this reply also proves how close minded you really are, stuck here, safe and sound in your little world
I had a good laugh at one of the earlier posts stating that gas engines have not improved much. I buy the most powerful powertrain on a new truck and I keep it stock. I am a very typical truck owner.
I bought my first new Ford F250 in 75. It was a regular cab long box.
I wanted the big 390 with a Holly 4 barrell so I had to pass up the 4X4 because in Canada you could not get the 4x4 with the 390. Too much torque they told me ........ hah.
Anyway, the 75 was an XLT , top of the line then, New process 4 Speed, the best towing machine Ford made at that time.
That truck weighed about 4800 pounds, that is almost 3000 pounds lighter than the 7800 pound CC LB 4X4 V10 that now sits in my driveway.
I had a little 8 foot slide in Camper and my combined weight was about 6800 pounds. The 390 could not handle any grade in high gear with the camper on so it was a shift into 3rd and 45 MPH MAX up any 8% grades.
A lowly 6800 pounds and 45 MPH up an 8 % grade ...........WOW!!!!
My 3 valve V10 moves 20780 pounds up an 8% grade at 60 MPH.
Now, the best part...........the 390 got the same mileage with the camper on that I now get towing my Fiver with my V10.
Anybody who would compare a stock 70's V8 to the V10 of today is completely misinformed and probably does get 22 MPG with a PSD
IN HIS FRIKKIN MIND !!!
__________________
2005 F350 Lariat FX4 CC LB SRW with 11200 # GVWR, moonroof, Torque shift , manual transfer case, and the 6.8 V10 engine.
The one thing that is absolutly killing me with fuel economy expecially with the gas engines is this, back in the 70s and 80s I used to run a lot of early 70s ford 4x4s, usually with big blocks, 390s, 460s, 429s, and some small blocks too, and even had a chev 1 ton with a 454 in it, and without exception I could get any of them to see 12-14mpg easily enough,(as long as I kept my foot out of them) now with 30 yrs of technology behind them, and all the computor controls, they are getting what? 13-15, and my wife's expy with a 5.4 sees 12 in town 15 hiway, I just don't see we have advanced much in 30 yrs
I noticed the same thing about the older stuff as opposed to the V10, but I think it all comes down to the gearing in the V10. Put some 325's or 3.55's in there and I think the mileage would improve. Ford's got em geared to pull not for mileage.
I did not ask this question to start a mine vs yours war, I was really curious why there was such a spread. I think most people even in some of the aruing made the answered my question. I have said in the past when gas prices shot up I was driving like a grandpa and I was keeping it under 2K rolling to stops, 65 on the highway (anyless on the tollway and you are going to get killed) and never getting on it. For all that agrvetation I got 1-2 mpgs better (closer to 1 then 2). Then I see the mpg polls and it seemed to me the all of us are getting almost the same exact millage. Sure some were getting better or worse but all were around the same. I would have thought that me running into the high RPMs would burn allot more fuel then guys that baby thier trucks. I alos figured that since Diesals run in a much narrowor RPM range they would be more consistant (not the first time my logic was backwards).
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Grow up. 
(OBTW: That is a compliment) 
The only way that pays off...is if you go at least 300,000+ problem free miles.
