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Old 06-03-2006, 08:56 PM
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Thinking about makeing bio diesel

Well guys, I have had my 01 7.3 diesel for about a week now and I have been researching bio diesel alot today. I think i am going to start building my set up soon to start makeing it, but I am still unclear on a few things. I pretty much understand the whole processing tank and wash tank concept and how to make one. I am haveing trouble finding good info on the net that explains how I do "titrateing". Also, is this something that would be safe to set up in the garage or am I going to risk a fire by doing this. One of my biggest concerns is a bad batch. I am afraid that if I make a bad batch or do something wrong I could cause damage to my truck, what ways are there to test the finishsed product and be sure it is correct?

Lastly, what advice can you guys give me on obtaining the cooking oil? What sources do you use? Will any used cooking oil work? how do you transport the oil home? thanks
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Old 06-03-2006, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuresweets-10
Well guys, I have had my 01 7.3 diesel for about a week now and I have been researching bio diesel alot today. I think i am going to start building my set up soon to start makeing it, but I am still unclear on a few things. I pretty much understand the whole processing tank and wash tank concept and how to make one. I am haveing trouble finding good info on the net that explains how I do "titrateing". Also, is this something that would be safe to set up in the garage or am I going to risk a fire by doing this. One of my biggest concerns is a bad batch. I am afraid that if I make a bad batch or do something wrong I could cause damage to my truck, what ways are there to test the finishsed product and be sure it is correct?

Lastly, what advice can you guys give me on obtaining the cooking oil? What sources do you use? Will any used cooking oil work? how do you transport the oil home? thanks
Welcome to FTE And welcome to our small band of homebrewers here If you haven't found it yet, start here first, it will explain titration, and everything else you need to make good bio: http://www.biodieselcommunity.org We're all learning here, so don't be afraid to post any questions, we'll try to find the answer for you.

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Old 06-04-2006, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabmandelux
Welcome to FTE And welcome to our small band of homebrewers here If you haven't found it yet, start here first, it will explain titration, and everything else you need to make good bio: http://www.biodieselcommunity.org We're all learning here, so don't be afraid to post any questions, we'll try to find the answer for you.

FABMANDELUX.
I read everything on that site and I didnt get much about titration from it. However, I did learn most of what I now know from that site.
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Old 06-04-2006, 09:29 AM
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=457773184300286737&q=biodiesel

After watching that episode of trucks one more time it leaves me with a few more questions. With the setup he used he never had to heat it, what does the heating of it do and why doesnt the $4k set up he used have a heater? Also the tank he used was tapered at the bottom. Useing a water heater tank wont their be problems with getting the by product with the diesel? Since the bottom is flat and all.

Last edited by Futuresweets-10; 06-04-2006 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 06-04-2006, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuresweets-10
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=457773184300286737&q=biodiesel

After watching that episode of trucks one more time it leaves me with a few more questions. With the setup he used he never had to heat it, what does the heating of it do and why doesnt the $4k set up he used have a heater? Also the tank he used was tapered at the bottom. Useing a water heater tank wont their be problems with getting the by product with the diesel? Since the bottom is flat and all.
Stacie left out a bunch. The Fuelmeister is an overpriced bunch of junk, IMHO. The operating instructions tell you to pre-heat the oil BEFORE you put it in the system, but with uninsulated plastic tanks, the temp starts dropping right away. Temperature is very critical, the lower the temp the longer you have to mix!

The cone bottom tank CAN make it easyer to remove the glycerol, BUT if you use NaOH and wait to long.....................you get a hard lump of glycerol in the bottom of the tank with no easy way to remove it, NOT GOOD.

The reason there is no heater in the tank is because IT'S PLASTIC! If something goes wrong [see Murphy's Law ] you will have a huge mess on your floor, besides the potential for a nasty FIRE.

The use of water-heaters has it's own set of problems, You cannot see the reaction, if it's cold you have to preheat and clean the oil before you try to put it in the 3/4" fill hole. This is why I use my own design "open" style processer.

Have a look in my gallery and see what I use for a processer.

FABMANDELUX.
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Last edited by fabmandelux; 06-04-2006 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 06-04-2006, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabmandelux
Stacie left out a bunch. The Fuelmeister is an overpriced bunch of junk, IMHO. The operating instructions tell you to pre-heat the oil BEFORE you put it in the system, but with uninsulated plastic tanks, the temp starts dropping right away. Temperature is very critical, the lower the temp the longer you have to mix!

The cone bottom tank CAN make it easyer to remove the glycerol, BUT if you use NaOH and wait to long.....................you get a hard lump of glycerol in the bottom of the tank with no easy way to remove it, NOT GOOD.

The reason there is no heater in the tank is because IT'S PLASTIC! If something goes wrong [see Murphy's Law ] you will have a huge mess on your floor, besides the potential for a nasty FIRE.

The use of water-heaters has it's own set of problems, You cannot see the reaction, if it's cold you have to preheat and clean the oil before you try to put it in the 3/4" fill hole. This is why I use my own design "open" style processer.

Have a look in my gallery and see what I use for a processer.

FABMANDELUX.
I think my best bet is to use the water heater tank. I will probably put a second hose on there to use as a viewing hose. I live in south MS so Im not to worried about it being to cold. I have only had a diesel truck for about a week now and I was just learning about ULSD a few miniutes ago, and that has me worried.
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Old 06-04-2006, 01:32 PM
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Just be very carefull if you use NaOH, the glycerol turns to a solid below 100 deg F For titration info: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiese...2.html#titrate

FABMANDELUX.
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Old 06-04-2006, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabmandelux
Just be very carefull if you use NaOH, the glycerol turns to a solid below 100 deg F For titration info: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#titrate

FABMANDELUX.
So in other words if I let whats in the tank get bellow 100degrees part of it will turn solid? If I accidently let it turn solid what can I do about it?
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Old 06-04-2006, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuresweets-10
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=457773184300286737&q=biodiesel

Useing a water heater tank won't their be problems with getting the by product with the diesel? Since the bottom is flat and all.
I started studying the bioD thing over two years ago. A year ago January, I bought Maria Alovert's book(let) that covers the specifics on making bioD. I had planned on building an Appleseed Converter and trying this stuff out. Well, life happens, and I finally got started on the the sucker last Easter weekend. Got it finished last week, and started my first batch last night. (I used the famous Fabman BioD Recipe.) I heated my oil for several hours, and then added the methoxide mixture. I use a reinforced nylon hose for my pump outlet to the top of the tank, so I can obsereve the reaction. Since I was using brand new oil for my first batch, the oil was pretty clear. When the methoxide hit the pump, the mixture turned foamy white. I kept the heating element on (the thermostat is set for 130 degrees), and let the pump run for two hours. Shut it down last night before going to bed. This morning, I went out and drained off the glycerin. First try, before church, I drained off just over 3 gallons of dark, tea-colored liquid. (still kinda warm) Now I'm headed back out there to crack the drain and see if any more dark stuff comes out, or if it's all clear. I plan to wash this batch twice and check the result. Fabman is one of many successful bioD producers that choose not to wash their bioD. I figure I'll try one batch as washed, and one batch as non-washed and see how things look.

As far as not getting ALL the glycerin out is concerned, the washing takes care of that. How effective my heater is at draining from the bottom will probably be the deciding factor in whether or not I continue to wash my fuel.
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Last edited by Dave Barbieri; 06-04-2006 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 06-04-2006, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Barbieri
I started studying the bioD thing over two years ago. A year ago January, I bought Maria Alovert's book(let) that covers the specifics on making bioD. I had planned on building an Appleseed Converter and trying this stuff out. Well, life happens, and I finally got started on the the sucker last Easter weekend. Got it finished last week, and started my first batch last night. (I used the famous Fabman BioD Recipe.) I heated my oil for several hours, and then added the methoxide mixture. I use a reinforced nylon hose for my pump outlet to the top of the tank, so I can obsereve the reaction. Since I was using brand new oil for my first batch, the oil was pretty clear. When the methoxide hit the pump, the mixture turned foamy white. I kept the heating element on (the thermostat is set for 130 degrees), and let the pump run for two hours. Shut it down last night before going to bed. This morning, I went out and drained off the glycerin. First try, before church, I drained off just over 3 gallons of dark, tea-colored liquid. (still kinda warm) Now I'm headed back out there to crack the drain and see if any more dark stuff comes out, or if it's all clear. I plan to wash this batch twice and check the result. Fabman is one of many successful bioD producers that choose not to wash their bioD. I figure I'll try one batch as washed, and one batch as non-washed and see how things look.

As far as not getting ALL the glycerin out is concerned, the washing takes care of that. How effective my heater is at draining from the bottom will probably be the deciding factor in whether or not I continue to wash my fuel.
Any pics of your set up, and where can I find the Fabman recipe? Thanks
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Old 06-04-2006, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuresweets-10
So in other words if I let whats in the tank get bellow 100degrees part of it will turn solid? If I accidently let it turn solid what can I do about it?
Yes, the glycerol will turn solid in the bottom under your biodiesel. Use KOH instead, it stays liquid to about 0 deg F There are several other concerns with a closed system, #1. If you have water in your oil and don't get a reaction you won't know it because you can't see it. With an open style, you can see the incomplete reaction, and can add more KOH untill you see the reaction complete. #2. If you "wash" in the same tank as you process in, the remaining water in the bottom will contaminate the next batch. Any water in the reaction will KILL IT, so you've got another bad batch.

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Old 06-04-2006, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabmandelux
Yes, the glycerol will turn solid in the bottom under your biodiesel. Use KOH instead, it stays liquid to about 0 deg F There are several other concerns with a closed system, #1. If you have water in your oil and don't get a reaction you won't know it because you can't see it. With an open style, you can see the incomplete reaction, and can add more KOH untill you see the reaction complete. #2. If you "wash" in the same tank as you process in, the remaining water in the bottom will contaminate the next batch. Any water in the reaction will KILL IT, so you've got another bad batch.

FABMANDELUX.
I had planned on useing a white plastic 50gallon drum to build a wash tank, so that wont be an issue. What is KOH apposed to glycerol? I was going to use lye (such as red devil type stuff) and methonol (raceing fuel)

Last edited by Futuresweets-10; 06-04-2006 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 06-04-2006, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Barbieri

As far as not getting ALL the glycerin out is concerned, the washing takes care of that. How effective my heater is at draining from the bottom will probably be the deciding factor in whether or not I continue to wash my fuel.
Great news Dave! Congrats! Are you going to wash in your processer? Be aware that if you do, the leftover "washwater" in your processer may contaminate your next batch. Not a good thing............At my last demo in Baker City everyone was amazed at the color changes that happens when you get a complete reaction. Good luck, and keep us informed on your progress.

Also, try heating to 145-150 deg F. If you only heat to 130 it takes longer to react, and putting in room temp Methoxide will lower the reaction temp further.

FABMANDELUX.
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Old 06-04-2006, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuresweets-10
I had planned on useing a white plastic 50gallon drum to build a wash tank, so that wont be an issue. What is KOH apposed to glycerol? I was going to use lye (such as red devil type stuff) and methonol (raceing fuel)
Lye is a generic term, and can be either KOH [Potassium Hydroxide] OR, NaOH [ Sodium Hydroxide]. KOH mixes easyer, produces less fumes, and the glycerol produced is a liqued to about 0 deg F, making it far simpler to remove the methanol from.

FABMANDELUX.
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Old 06-04-2006, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabmandelux
Lye is a generic term, and can be either KOH [Potassium Hydroxide] OR, NaOH [ Sodium Hydroxide]. KOH mixes easyer, produces less fumes, and the glycerol produced is a liqued to about 0 deg F, making it far simpler to remove the methanol from.

FABMANDELUX.
So either of them will work the same and give you the same end result with the fuel? Where can I find KOH, what sources should I check? How much does KOH cost compaired to NaOH? what is red devil, KOH, or NaOH? thanks
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Old 06-04-2006, 02:49 PM
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