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  #1  
Old 06-02-2006, 08:17 PM
aurgathor aurgathor is offline
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157 mpg

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006...ian_compa.html
http://www.loremo.com/daten_en.php

of course, everything is vaporware until it ships, but based on the data, it is not as unbelievable as some of the other high mpg claims.

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  #2  
Old 06-03-2006, 12:57 AM
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it will never be available in the US, trust me. The epa is more interested in stupid little minor non issue increases in reductions in tailpipe emissions than they are in fuel economy. The current diesel emissions requirements would kill that car instantly here. The 07 emissions requirements are going to add $6-10,000 to the cost of a diesel pickup on top of the already added price for the diesel to begin with and the epa doesn't care that they are trying to kill an engine that is between 30-80% more efficient than it's gas counter part and without emissions equipment is cleaner than even the smogged versions of the gassers. they are one of the major reasons we can't get away from foriegn oil.
No those claims aren't out of range my parents have a VW diesel jetta that gets around 57mpg now so I don't see why it would be that hard to bring that number up pretty easily.
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  #3  
Old 06-03-2006, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monsterbaby
it will never be available in the US, trust me.
That is very possible, although if oil prices go up high enough ($150 - $200, which I think is exceedingly unlikely in the near future) that might change the attitude of regulators.

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The epa is more interested in stupid little minor non issue increases in reductions in tailpipe emissions than they are in fuel economy.
That is true, and it's very sad. I can understand that a clean burning engine is good to have, but with the upcoming requirements, I think the EPA went too far, and over the edge. What we'd need is a good compromise between tailpipe emission and efficiency, but the latter one appears to be sacrified for the former. While a less efficient, but "cleaner" (by EPA standards) engine will produce less NOx, CO, and unburned HC, it will produce more CO2, which isn't very good either.

VW won't expect to have diesels in 2007 model year in the US because they can't meet the requirements, yet their diesel cars are just fine in the much more densely populated Europe!!

In any case, if CA wants their own standard let them have it, but don't force everyone else.

Quote:
No those claims aren't out of range my parents have a VW diesel jetta that gets around 57mpg now so I don't see why it would be that hard to bring that number up pretty easily.
One of my point was that this approach can conceivably lead to a car with an ungodly good mpg. But even if it only gets, say, 100 mpg, that would still be at least 2x better than what the majority of cars in the US are getting today.
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  #4  
Old 06-05-2006, 10:21 AM
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Americans will not go for a 20hp car, not at least with diesel fuel around $3 a gallon.

Jim
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  #5  
Old 06-05-2006, 03:55 PM
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Well, the 50 hp version would be more acceptable here, though that's nowhere near to the other one's mpg. And they would need to have an optional automatic available in the US, which adds weight and complexity.

Last edited by aurgathor; 06-05-2006 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 06-06-2006, 11:30 AM
jimandmandy jimandmandy is offline
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When was the last time a 50hp automoble was sold in volume in the US, 20+ years ago? The 53hp VW I drove in the early 1970's topped out at 80mph and had no luxuries except a sunroof, radio and sort of a heater/defroster. Americans will bitch about the price of fuel, but wont buy "economy" cars with less than 100hp and power everything, at least at these fuel prices.

Jim
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  #7  
Old 06-07-2006, 02:14 AM
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Good point, but consumer behavior can and will shift. Replacing cars and unlearning old habits definitely takes a while, but based on headlines like: "High gasoline prices are helping boost nationwide sales of motorcycles as commuters look for a fuel-saving alternative to four-wheeled travel" indicate that some people willing to jump ship to save big on gas money. Current link is (will disappear in a few days): http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20060606/ts_usatoday/cyclesalespoweredbypriceygas;_ylt=AmM1pFHZFm4ilkn7 LR89ZtSs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3ODdxdHBhBHNlYwM5NjQ-

Also, it's not just HP, but HP to weight ratio that determines how quickly one can accelerate. 50 HP in such a lightweight car is actually pretty reasonable.

Last edited by aurgathor; 06-07-2006 at 02:17 AM.
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Old 06-07-2006, 12:27 PM
jimandmandy jimandmandy is offline
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Yes hp to weight and USABLE hp. That 53hp was at 3600rpm, and it could run there for hours at a time, not the screaming 6500rpm that is typical peak for todays typical 130hp 4-cylinder engine. Curb wieghts have grown significantly as "small" cars have grown. A typcially equipped Focus probably has 1000lbs on that VW.

Jim
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  #9  
Old 06-07-2006, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimandmandy
When was the last time a 50hp automoble was sold in volume in the US, 20+ years ago? The 53hp VW I drove in the early 1970's topped out at 80mph and had no luxuries except a sunroof, radio and sort of a heater/defroster. Americans will bitch about the price of fuel, but wont buy "economy" cars with less than 100hp and power everything, at least at these fuel prices.

Jim
my 3 cyl 1994 Geo Metro got over 56 mpg
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  #10  
Old 06-09-2006, 01:54 AM
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Hey, I liked my little 68 VW, -but then it wasn't stock, it wasn't 53HP either, and it got better MPG than stock because it had a magic "orange" distributor and carb system I built for it. It would flat roast the tires. It was also lighter than stock.

BTW- The so called heater/defroster sucked... I could R&R the engine in 30 minutes flat. I still have that engine.
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Last edited by Torque1st; 06-09-2006 at 01:56 AM.
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  #11  
Old 06-09-2006, 03:25 PM
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It will not pass north american requirements for 600lbs of additional safety equipment to keep us from hurting ourselves. North Americans have become so used to having the government regulate safety to them, that it's amazing we are still allowed to walk on the sidewalk merely wearing shoes.

A miracle, how the generations before us ever survived not having shoulder/seat bealts, airbags etc etc..
I am in wonder that I am still around after all the trips I spent sleeping in the back of my parent's Rambler wagon.. laying down!
Today they would lock up my parents and throw away the key...

and heaven only knows how I survived riding a bicycle without a helmet... I guess the trick was to not smash your head on the pavement when riding...

But kids find a way around this. Sliding a skateboard down a railing on a long set of concrete stairs, far exceeds anything I ever did for danger. Just make sure you have you helmet on when you ride your bike home..
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  #12  
Old 06-09-2006, 10:30 PM
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Remember the OSHA Cowboy?

http://www.hsegroup.com/hse/text/cowboy.htm
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  #13  
Old 06-11-2006, 08:34 PM
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thats hilarious, osha can take things way too far sometimes
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Old 06-16-2006, 12:07 AM
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I remember when that cartoon came out, that would mean i'm getting old.
I went thru a CHP Motorcycle Safety course in 69, passed all classroom work and tests, following saturday did the closed road test, I passed. With that all done the CHP did a demonstration on how fast they could do a lap on a Harley. I did it drifting the 810 Dunstall Norton with some front wheel air time.
Pissed 'em off as dad was there laughing at the Harleys. He rode for 64 years.
To commute in traffic on a bike is nuts, bike riding is for pleasure away from cagers.
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Old 06-17-2006, 10:03 AM
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To stay alive and well riding a motorcycle in traffic, you have to ride with the presumption that you are completely invisible to other vehicle's drivers.
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Old 06-17-2006, 10:03 AM
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