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Old 05-22-2006, 11:57 PM
socalfurnow socalfurnow is offline
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home gas station

How would you guys go about trying to source bulk ethanol delivery? Is it considered a hazerdous material and hence requires a permit for storage? the need for stainless steel for storage has been duely noted in previous posts. I've read posts commenting on the increased ease of storage of E85; what ratio can you go to to avoid the need for stainless steel and to limit the hazard of water contaminating the ethanol mix? 50/50? 60/40?

Thanks for any input. We seem to be a ways off yet here in the PNW from readily accessible ethanol at the pump. Anyone hear about an ethanol plant in the Aberdeen area coming opn line within a year or so?
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Old 05-23-2006, 03:17 AM
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Even Gasohol at 10% ethanol is hazardous with water contamination. Plain old carbon steel could be used if there is no moisture present. Unfortunately most elastomer seal materials are permeable to water, meaning water molecules will pass thru them. It takes a while but water eventually gets into everything.

You might want to check with the NW forum for info about local conditions or news.
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Old 05-23-2006, 10:20 AM
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Do you have a source for bulk ethanol? What is the cost per gallon?
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Old 05-23-2006, 10:55 AM
socalfurnow socalfurnow is offline
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Washington ethanol

Apparently ethanol is available in Richland, WA :

And now Connell Oil has placed biodiesel and ethanol pumps at the Pacific Pride fueling station on Highway 240 near the Richland Airport. PNNL has about 25 vehicles in its fleet that run on biofuels and expects to use up to 10,000 gallons of biofuel this year.

Anyone tried this out yet? If gas gets much more expensive Richland is going to have some hot real-estate



Here is the news article about ethanol plant coming to the PNW:


Pacific Ethanol Inc. said Tuesday it has received all necessary permits to begin construction on a 35-million-gallon-per-year ethanol facility at the Port of Morrow, located on the Columbia River near Boardman.

Fresno, Calif.-based Pacific Ethanol (NASDAQ: PEIX) said it expects to begin construction, which should take approximately 12 months, within the next 30 days

Ethanol is a clean-burning, high-octane fuel that is produced from renewable sources such as corn.

The Oregon ethanol facility will provide ethanol for the Pacific Northwest gasoline markets. It is expected that the plant's distillers grains will be sold to the local Oregon and Washington dairy and feed markets.

Neil Koehler, CEO of Pacific Ethanol, said the company plans to build five ethanol production facilities to serve the western United States by the end of 2008.

The design for the Boardman plant, he said, is based on the plant currently under construction in Madera, Calif., which will begin ethanol production in the fourth quarter of this year.

Pacific Ethanol is also working to identify and develop other renewable fuel technologies such as cellulose-based ethanol production and biodiesel.
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Old 05-23-2006, 12:38 PM
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Price it out yet?

Chicago Board of Trade has Ethanol futures at $3.22 a gallon today. That's for a 29,000 gallon (1 rail car) contract. That's the wholesale, big volume, discount price. Any smaller quantity purchased from a reseller will be higher. How much do you want?

In comparison, gasoline futures on the NYMEX are trading at $2.11 a gallon for a 42,000 gallon contract. Again, volume discount price, before road taxes are added.

I'm thinking I still preferr that 'expensive' gasoline. I'm really starting to believe that the US public is being sold a huge bill of goods in this energy conversion hysteria.
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Old 05-23-2006, 09:47 PM
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fair point

that's a fair point about energy futures. I think it has always been hard to justify conversion based just on recovering initial financial costs.
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Old 05-24-2006, 12:12 AM
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the main reason for the price jump is the massive demand that just came on with the phase out of MTBE. There are many ethanol plants being built, but they aren't on line today, so the prices are higher for the time being. It likely will be a little while before it all levels out.
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Old 05-24-2006, 12:30 AM
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It is considered a hazmat and will require many permits including the local fire department and King County ecology. In a residential neighborhood you would be unlikely to get said permits. You can't typically get one for a large gasoline storage facility at home in the city either anymore. Probably easier to buy an existing gas station.

Last edited by tiredone; 05-24-2006 at 12:32 AM. Reason: mistake
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Old 05-24-2006, 12:30 AM
 
 
 
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