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Old 05-13-2006, 10:08 PM
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Heavy Trailers Need "A" Licence

I'm a newbie to this forum and look forward to learning and contributing.
I live in London ON and drive a F 250 PSD pulling a 5th wheel trailer with a GVWR of 13,400 lbs. After buying the trailer I was surprised to learn (the dealer didn't tell me) that I would require an "A" type drivers licence to be legal. The law states that if your loaded weight over the wheels is more than 10,120 lbs, you require an "A" licence. The MTO fellow I was talking to said that " It's not so much the fines we'll hit you with($250-$500) it's the fact that if you are involved in an accident and you don't have the correct class of licence....NOW NOTE THIS.......YOUR INSURANCE IS INVALID! I confirmed this with my insurance company.

My reason for posting this is to remind everyone pulling a trailer to check the weight over the wheels. The last thing you want in an accident is to learn after the fact that your insurance is null and void because you don't have the correct drivers licence. This applies to all drivers, not just commmercial that a lot of people believe. Please check it out for yourself.
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Old 05-14-2006, 07:55 AM
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Wow! Thanks for the info. Some people wouldn't think of that.

Now head on over the the welcoming thread I made for you.

-Matt
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Old 05-14-2006, 09:39 PM
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Flip Over Read Directions....

Isn't just another cute name for Fords. Do it to your drivers licence !!!!!!!!!!!!
My Class "D" says "Truck/combin. (towed vehicle max. 4600 kg). (G).
Let me guess........Class D gets the same plastic licence as Class G so that must mean the Class D = Nada.
AL.
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Old 05-15-2006, 12:20 AM
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Are you sure it is in Lbs and not KG ?

Usually a Class A license In Alberta is for Semi-Trailer Trucks ovr 11,000 Kg's ,Ambulances,Loaded School Buses.

I would think that figure is wrong and should be 11,000 KG's.

I'll go check the Ontario website.

EDIT:
I guess I'm wrong
Read this for verfication.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dan...er/classes.htm

Last edited by Mil1ion; 05-15-2006 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 05-15-2006, 12:18 PM
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Al, How many gross kg is your D good for? My G says 11000 kg, towed 4600 kg max. My F150 with a loaded car trailer maxes at 10000 lbs total, that's only 4600 kg.
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Old 05-15-2006, 07:27 PM
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Post My understanding of all this....

With a "G" lic. - "any motor vehicle not exceeding 11,000 kilograms gross weight or registered gross weight and any combination of a motor vehicle not exceeding a total gross weight or registered gross weight of 11,000 kilograms and towed vehicles where the towed vehicles do not exceed a total gross weight of 4,600 kilograms"

With a "D" lic. - "any motor vehicle exceeding 11,000 kilograms gross weight or registered gross weight, and any combination of a motor vehicle exceeding a total gross weight or registered gross weight of 11,000 kilograms and towed vehicles not exceeding a total gross weight of 4,600 kilograms, but not a bus carrying passengers"

The trailer weight for both classes of lic. remains the same - max of 4600kgs; but the veh wt you can drive is no longer limited to 11000kg but goes up for a "D" lic - basically any straight truck at all - any size, but not a transport trailer type (unless the trailer part is under 4600kgs - not likely)
The lic class can also make a difference if your trailer is over 2800 kgs (the point at which you must add it's weight to the trucks to get your gross) So there can be times when a G can't tow something because it would put him/her over their limit of 11000, but a D can tow it - as long as the trailer is less than 4600 kgs.

If you want to tow a trailer of more than 4600kgs. then you need an "A" class lic as stated by Ford RV'er...

Where it gets more interesting is in the Annual Inspections and Stickers...

If you stay with an F250 and declare a registered gross wt of 4400 kgs (you have to stay under the 4500kg threshold - lots of consequences when you go over 4500 - you're classed as a commercial motor vehicle, you pay a different fee structure for the ETR407 AND - you must get an Annual Inspection sticker). But if you register with MOT at 4400 kgs. then you can legally, with a "G" lic - tow a utility trailer of up to 2800kgs (6171lbs) and a house/travel trailer up to 4600 kgs. (10138lbs) and the weight of the trailer IS NOT part of the truck's RGW.. and you DON'T NEED AN ANNUAL STICKER.
My RGW from Ford is 9800lbs, by registering and paying for 4400kgs I legally get 9697 - a loss of 103lbs... I can live with that to avoid all the commercial motor vehicle requirements. I'm looking for a travel trailer right now, and as long as I stay under 4600 kgs (fully loaded), then I'm good to go and NO INSPECTIONS. (btw - I do have a "D", but don't need it for this example)

See the MTO site at www dot mto dot gov dot on dot ca forward slash english forward slash trucks forward slash regulations forward slash annual dot htm

That's the way I read it, and that's what I've done.... but like the ads always say "you should check for yourself and decide what's best 4 you"
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Old 05-15-2006, 08:01 PM
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Majic31, I've been over this many many times with MTO guys, RV Lifestyle Magazine teckies etc. Your take on the whole issue is bang on! One point I should emphasize.....in the case of a trailer the 4600 kgs is almost the majic number ....it's the weight over the trailer wheels that the weight police are fussy with. In my case the loaded weight of my FIFTH WHEEL is more than 4600 kgs but the weight over the wheels is less because my pin weight is around 900 kg. So considering pin or hitch weight comes into play.
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Old 05-15-2006, 10:04 PM
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Good Info.....

The link Dennis dug up is short & sweet and clear.
Majic31 provided the same info in detail.
Class "G" is capped at 11,000 kg. with a MAX trailer gross of 4,600 kg.
Class "D" is not capped for combined gross weight with the towed vehicle MAX of 4,600 kg.
So, I could jump in any medium truck with juice brakes, load it to it's leagal max AND tow any trailer that maxes under 4,600 kg.
So, if I were to convince my buddy George to lend me his Freightliner and 4 car trailer, I'd only be able to legally haul 1 (one) small car to stay under the 4,600 kg max trailer weight.
Details, details.
. Anybody want to tackle the "Mobile Home combined weight & Annual Inspection exemption" rumour. The rumour starts of with any vehicle &/or combination used as a mobile home must have some form of indoor plumbing, even a portable pottie.
I've been waved through scales when driving U-Haul 5 tons I guess because they expect these trucks to be loaded with "Personal Household Belongings".
Any known facts on this one?
AL.
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Old 05-16-2006, 10:55 AM
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Mobile Homes do NOT need an Annual Sticker

From the government e-laws site - Annual Inspection Rules

"Vehicles and Trailers That Do Not Require Annual Inspections


  1. Motor homes. A truck while carrying a slide-in camper is a motor home.
  2. Camper trailers and house trailers. A livestock trailer with living accommodations is not a house trailer.
  3. Mobile homes or office trailers wider than 2.6 m (8.6") or longer than 11 m (36 ft).
  4. Trucks that weigh 4,500 kilograms or less while towing camper trailers, house trailers, devices or implements of husbandry such as farm wagons. Note: The trailer's tongue weight and the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of an attached house or camper trailer is not added to the weight of the truck when determining the truck's weight."
As for the reference to the port-a-pottie.. I looked but couldn't find anything... what I found refered to "temporary living accomodation".. I guess I'd want some kind of pottie even for temporary living....

The point about the U-Haul is covered I think, under the Highway Traffic Act S.16(1)(b) - where it gives the exemptions to a commercial motor vehicle -

"(b) a commercial motor vehicle leased for no longer than thirty days by an individual for the transportation of goods kept for that individual’s personal use or the gratuitous carriage of passengers,"


The thing is our rules of the road are getting as complex and messed up as our gun registry. You need to look very specifically at your own situation and what you intend on driving/pulling/towing, or it could cost you mucho dinaro and problems.
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Old 05-16-2006, 11:31 AM
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Although driving legal is critical the most scary thing about this whole darn issue is that if you are involved in an accident with your rig I've learned that the insurance adjusters will weigh the respective vehicles, check the class of your licence and if there is a discrepancy the insurance is null and void. I have documentation concerning this from State Farm. Could be tres expensive (life altering as it is called by insurance people) if law suits are initiated. My advice, go get your "A" licence....it's not a big deal to get.
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Old 05-16-2006, 11:45 AM
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The D/G licence bends the rules for farm use too, doesn't it? When my buddy started driving, he had his Z endorsement already, but not an A licence. He worked for a greenhouse which was classified as a farm. So he's driving D class trucks with a GZ licence, which was ok thru MTO scales and such. Where they got picky was if the farm leased a truck, like Idealease, then the MTO didn't like him driving it because it wasn't plated for farm use. I can't remember exactly how it panned out?
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Old 05-16-2006, 12:36 PM
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What we do out here in Alberta

http://governmentservices.gov.ab.ca/...LicenceClasses
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Old 05-16-2006, 11:02 PM
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That's Funny !!!!!!!!!!

Anybody coming to Alberta from The UK, you know...where the lady on some of our money lives, has to start from the beginning!!!!!!!!!!
Typically complicated, unless you're 14 & have a moped or motorcycle, government double talk. It almost looks like you need a licence to drive a tractor.
AL.
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Old 05-16-2006, 11:02 PM
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